This week’s podcast episode is all about how to make better decisions.

If you’ve ever got stuck, unable to move forward, because a decision in your business or life just seems too hard to make, then you’re going to love this episode.

If you find yourself procrastinating over choices you know are important but you feel torn between so many options or even feel paralysed by the fear of making the wrong choice when there seems to be more than one option that is right, then know you are not alone.

It’s times like this you need a decision framework, and if the decision is important enough, you need to know that framework is thorough enough so you won’t second guess yourself and slip back into indecision.

To help you, this week I interview my close friend and mentor, Kevin Breeding who developed a deceptively simple, but very powerful framework on how to make better decisions.

It’s not just theory though. We delve into 3 case studies so you can see how to apply the framework yourself to your own business decisions.

3 case studies we explore:

  1. Kevin’s story of hitting rock-bottom. Of being completely broke after a bankruptcy and divorce to turning his life around and putting his own business back on track. He used the framework to choose the right path and to stick with it.
  2. My own business. A few months ago I was stuck. I knew I wanted to make a bigger impact but my current business model just didn’t feel like it could take me to the next stage. I had big decisions to make. Stay as Wonderful Web Women? Go back to the future and relaunch a membership site just for women (how I started out)? Close everything and start something new? Brand as Janet Beckers or as my Signature System or Company? Plus more.I worked personally with Kevin who took me through his 5 step framework and I was able to assess every option and choose the path that gave me the freedom to make the impact I really wanted. I share more in the interview.
  3. A client who overnight became a viral video success (120 million views in just 2 weeks) and who was in real danger of his business imploding because he simply did not have the capacity to cope with the number of enquiries and had a short window of opportunity to really capitalise on the attention. We explore how to make massive decisions under stress.

Plus a special bonus….. Kevin is an absolutely delightful person to listen to. You’ll really enjoy his take on life.

I’d love to hear your ah-ha’s and any questions or comments you have. Just leave them below and we’ll come back and join in the conversation.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below.
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Click To View Show Notes with Timestamps

[00:01:50] Kevin Breeding works alongside entrepreneurs and leaders who see their business as a vehicle to do something great in this world. “It’s not just about the money.”

[00:02:30]That’s what I do. The roadblock-busting business.”

[00:03:28] Kevin was rebuilding his life after experiencing bankruptcy and a divorce all within six months, affecting him intellectually and creatively.

[00:04:08]Our brains are wired for survival not for creative thinking.” We tend to worry too much over what could go wrong. Kevin built the Five Step Process so that we can take emotions out of challenging circumstances and approach them as logically as possible.

[00:05:20] The Five Step Process: Imagine, illustrate, indicate, integrate, and implement.

[00:05:40] “Imagine is all about brainstorming and we all know how to do that.

[00:05:50] “Second one is probably where it would be most useful for our group listening today is on illustrate.

[00:06:02] Integrate is where you look at the impact of that choice all the way through your personal life, your business, your team, your systems all of that”

[00:06:10] “Implement phase which is how do you physically bring it to real life.”

[00:06:24] This process is deceptively simple and incredibly powerful.

[00:07:51] “As entrepreneurs, there are so many ways to be right… There is this sense of overwhelm because we have this fear.”

[00:09:30] Kevin didn’t realize that he was creating a five step process. He was just journaling at the time and came up with a process that worked.

[00:09:46] “It’s not just the five step framework which I’m a huge fan of.” Kevin talks about how having a set framework or system plugged in saves you from progressive cognitive atrophy – a fancy way of saying psyching ourselves out.

[00:11:02] One of Kevin’s closest friends, Dr. Rick Rigsby, is in a situation where he could benefit from the Five Step Process. After working with Goalcast, a media company who creates inspirational videos, he now has a viral video viewed by over 120 million people since October 5th. This turned into interview invitations on major media outlets and book deals for Rick.

[00:11:41] “And the truth is that that kind of exposure can both show how vulnerable you are and can completely leave you paralyzed.”

[00:12:34] Kevin warns, “Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.” You can easily get overwhelmed if you don’t have the right frameworks in place.

[00:14:25] You need to see past frustrations and remind yourself that you have to keep work consistently to get where you want to be.

[00:15:22] Aha! Day – Janet figured out where to go with her business on her Illustrate Day with Kevin. While Imagine day is about throwing out every single idea out there, Illustrate is about three to five of your best ideas and fleshing them out.

[00:16:40] Take these ideas one by one as if they’re the only option that’s going to work. Spend 10 to 20 minutes to let it blossom into a full-fledged idea.

[00:17:09] Sometimes, you will realize that some of the other ideas are not as good as you thought.

[00:17:59] “You want these five ideas to compete with one another” so that you will have strong contenders for your final choice, which you will make on day 3. There is no pressure to decide on the best idea right away, meaning you can focus on growing your ideas creatively and strategically first.

[00:19:22] Janet shares her personal experience with the Five Step Process. Janet was at the crossroads, choosing between making Wonderful Web Women all about women again, branding everything as Janet Beckers, or making Romance Your Tribe her main focus. It was a difficult choice, but the Illustrate step helped Janet come to a decision.

[00:20:54]In the midst of confusion where emotions can taint the logic in the decision making process you want to go back to that which you know has served you well before.” – Kevin Breeding

[00:21:19] Kevin talks about how the Five Step Process stops entrepreneurs, even the adventurous ones, from defaulting to what is safe.

[00:22:35] Following Kevin’s advice, Janet started the Romance Your Tribe podcast because it allowed her to do something she loved to do.

[00:24:11] “A friendship that turned into a client is now turning into media opportunities for me and and a lot of exposure.” After Rick’s video blew up, Rick mentioned Kevin in one of his Facebook Lives and opened doors for Kevin.

Even though this exposure would be overwhelming for most, he had a framework to go back to.

[00:25:08] “The question is how do I go into a more public sort of taking a role and being that thought leader or do I stay in the coaching model where I’m sort of the visionary and sort of the wizard behind the drapes that’s helping them craft the way a story gets told.”

And Kevin is not being rushed into making this decision.

[00:26:40] In the end, it’s all about what would best make an impact to your tribe.

[00:27:05] Final Word:The tribal leader is about clarity and being able to say ‘This is what we believe around here’.”

[00:27:42] The best way to reach Kevin is through his website at where you can download his eBook called “Mastering Mindset”. There, he starts the conversation around the Five Step Process with 15 interviews with top entrepreneurs in across multiple industries.

Key  Points

  • Emotions can taint the logic in your decision-making process.
  • It’s good to have a framework in place to protect yourself from getting overwhelmed.
  • Flesh out your ideas one by one so you’re choosing from multiple strong ideas.

Action Points

  1. If you currently have an important decision to make, and know you need to focus on how to make better decisions, then set aside 5 x 30 minute sessions over the next week or 2 to implement the process.
  2. Enjoy the imagine step – I found it fun to be creative without the expectation of a decision at this stage
  3. Make your 5 or so options really compete against each other.
  4. Congratulate yourself on taking action. Dip into the Celebration Box.
  5. Share below your ah-ha’sfrom this lesson and also any tips other viewers may find useful.
  6. Go and check out Kevin’s free ebook – it’s excellent.
  7. If you loved this episode, I’ll be grateful if you can leave a review over on itunes so other people can discover this podcast too

Links and Resources Mentioned

Get to know Kevin Breeding

The best way to reach Kevin is through his website at where you can download his eBook called “Mastering Mindset”. There, he starts the conversation around the Five Step Process with 15 interviews with top entrepreneurs in across multiple industries.

Leave a rating and comment over on iTunes

The viral video we referred to in the interview:

In Facebook (where it went viral) 
On Youtube 

Extra Bonus:
Free eBook – 15 Simple Mindset Hacks to reprogram your subconscious for happiness and success

Read The Transcript Here

Janet Beckers: Hello and welcome everybody. Janet Beckers here with Romance Your Tribe radio. And I’m so excited to introduce you to my wonderful guest today Kevin Breeding is one of my favourite favourite people in the world. Kevin and I have spent quite a bit of time over the last year masterminding in business and the thing that I absolutely love about Kevin is this is a man who has an incredibly strategic mind man who makes big impacts in a whole lot of businesses and all big businesses and yet he has the most humble most non-judgemental and absolute true interest and curiosity for every single person no matter where they are in their business. So I’m really excited to bring you know the way that Kevin thinks and also it’s really great strategies that he uses and that he has used with me to help me with my rebranding in my business so Hello, Kevin.

Kevin Breeding: Hey, Janet. I am so glad to be here. Thank you for the invitation. An honour. I’ve been looking forward to this for for days now so I’m glad it’s finally here.

Janet Beckers: That’s fantastic. So I think the biggest challenges that I have with the Romance Your Tribe radio podcast. I try to keep things as tight as we can so people can get maximum value in the shortest time that we can give. Now I know you and I can talk for hours and hours and hours because we have. So to cut straight to the chase. Can you share with us who it is that you serve and how you do that.

Kevin Breeding: Sure. I am all about coming alongside entrepreneurs and leaders who are looking to scale their business quickly. They realize that they’re going to have to do some internal work to do that. And third that they see their business as a vehicle to do something greater in the world. It’s not just about the money. And how I do that is very simply it’s through a series of interactions and a coaching model then that ranges from one on one through group models all the way down to kind of self guided courses that have taken the hundreds if not thousands of entrepreneurs now through just to help unlock some of the roadblocks and the things that all of us do. So I mean the roadblock busting business that’s what I do the Roadblock busting business.

Janet Beckers: I love it. I love it. Yeah. So Kevin and I were talking about there’s so many- I mean Kevin has this amazing tool kit that he has developed from using experience to help different people through those roadblocks. And one of the ones that I’ve had personal experience with is the five step process so we could talk a bit about the five step process and show some examples about how you’ve been using them recently because there’s some pretty exciting stories happening in Kevin’s business at the moment so let’s just start with the five step process. Can you explain what actually led to the five step process and what is the need for the process that we’re going to cover today.

Kevin Breeding: Sure.

Janet Beckers: The interesting thing about five step and why I think it’s an important tool is I realized early on in kind of rebuilding my life I’d gone through a bankruptcy and a divorce – all of it in a six month period. And it just absolutely was catastrophic. It not only took away you know financial gain and relationships and things like that but I didn’t realize at the time the damage that it did to me both intellectually and creatively as I would start to do new ventures. I didn’t know at the time that I was locked up inside and I didn’t have that freedom. But you know it’s funny Tony Robbins always says that we have to remember that our brains are wired for survival not for creative thinking. And so we’re constantly thinking of what’s going to go wrong. And so something like five step framework allows you a model that in the midst of chaos both good chaos and bad chaos if we all say wait a minute everybody take a breath. I know that there’s a thought process that I could put myself through. It allows us to take emotion out of what could be a challenging circumstance and you just work your way right to a model to say okay what about this. Is it this or that. Is it A or B. Is it one or two. And then it helps me kind of know OK I have I have a trusted proven way to identify roadblocks even when you don’t see them there in the first place and then two, how do you move and move them quickly or are all of a sudden it gives you confidence as well as a structure that says hey this is no big deal. Let me apply that framework. And as you mentioned I’ve seen this happen and we can get into that example here all of it about exactly how the framework works. You know I don’t know if it’s if it’s helpful but there’s five pieces to it. And I’ll tell you I started out in a five day model but I realize entrepreneurs and leaders like you and me, we don’t always work in the structured time and so we do it in five steps. They are quite simply: imagine, illustrate, indicate, integrate, and implement and just the kind of two second versions of each one of these.

Kevin Breeding: I love this, you know, iteration. All this start with letter I

Janet Beckers: They are, always is. Imagine – imagine is all about brainstorming and we all know how to do that. We have different models and methods I use mind mapping and I remember you and I had a faint mind mapping session with the second second one is probably where it would be most useful for our group listening today is on illustrate. We’ll come back to that where you’re literally developing each idea more indicates where you actually make your choice. Integrate is where you look at the impact of that choice all the way through your personal life, your business, your team, your systems all of that and then the Implement phase which is how do you physically bring it to real life. And I love this quote and I want to brag on you all that because you have given me the branding name has resonated for people who go through five step you said to me, this process is deceptively simple and incredibly powerful. And as soon as I use that that quote from you, people go oh wow. This really does feel too simple to do all the things that you say it does. And every person that goes through it just simply says Wow I didn’t think it would do what it does. You just nailed it. And so you’ve actually given me the by-line of the process.

Kevin Breeding: Thank God, I’ll take clients from that. And then when you know when you first introduce me to the process look and work through I thought I got that. I got that. Like, the variants there and it wasn’t til we were working through us that I thought oh actually this is really. I’ve skimmed. A lot of things that we actually dived into deeper. Before we go a little further into the process. Can we just backtrack a little tiny bit because I’m just thinking when you talk about how during times of chaos or indecision that this takes the emotion out it gives you a chance to be able to step back and have a logical process. And I know, I thought we can talk about a few example scenarios there because one that I see oh, look so much. And you know I would be very surprised if anybody listening today could not not be here inside his head. As entrepreneurs, there are so many ways to be right. And we’re always bombarded with you know you should be doing podcast, no you should be doing video. No, you should be doing workshops, you should be doing just eBooks. There’s all these different ways to be right. And I think there’s always it’s without fail. There is this sense of overwhelm because we have this fear of you know like my fear of missing out if I focus on this I’m losing so much. So I know that this is one particular scenario that a lot of people will have numerous times throughout their business when trying to make that decision because everybody is framing it the way they should be doing things. I thought it might be interesting to look at some different examples of when this process when you use this process either with yourself or with some of your your clients that you work with.

Janet Beckers: Yeah, thank you for that. One. I have to go back to what it did for me personally because I do want to I wouldn’t believe it unless I’d gone through it and did this. This came out of what was a point where I wasn’t sure that I had the ability to kind of get back into the entrepreneurial game. I was like we all do from time to time I ready to say fine I’m just going to get a job and you know you’ll be somebody else’s problem. And I realized that that’s not who I am and not what I’m about but I didn’t know how to begin the method and the process. Now whenever I experienced it first time I was just journaling. I didn’t know it was the five steps. I start a five step framework because I was creating it at the time. And so one, it comes personally for me. But probably the most powerful illustration that I’ve seen of something like this working and I want to make sure that to say to everybody that’s listening. It’s not just the five step framework which I’m a huge fan of obviously but it’s that we have to, as entrepreneurs, do the hard work and do the prep and have systems and frameworks because what happens is if we don’t have some sort of model either massive success or something catastrophic happens and all of a sudden we get devastated and we don’t know what to do. What happens is our brain kind of goes into survival mode we’re into fight or flight. And it’s actually one of the things that I talk about as we start to experience what’s called progressive cognitive atrophy. And it’s where every time we try to fix something we think our way through it and we can’t. We’re frustrated. We back off from it and it becomes that much harder to fix it the next time.

Kevin Breeding: Yes.

Janet Beckers: Now that’s a fancy – progressive cognitive atrophy is a fancy way to say We psych ourselves out.

Kevin Breeding: Yeah. It’s another way of saying what was it, sorry?

Janet Beckers: We psych ourselves out.

Kevin Breeding: It’s like we tell ourselves that the wall is that much bigger. And in actuality it’s not any bigger it’s just that we’ve made it harder because we think we’ve exhausted a process so frameworks like this work. And I can give you an exact example that I am living in right this very second. I have one of my very dear friends and a client Dr. Rick Rigsby who has had a is a viral video that since October the 5th has been viewed more than 120 million times.

Janet Beckers: Wow.

Kevin Breeding: And so he’s gone from you know a stage platform speaker and an author to now being pursued by ANE network, by NBC. Being invited on Good Morning America. Book publishers coming out from left to right and as entrepreneurs we’re going to look at that saying wow. Yeah you know we want that. That’s exactly what we were chasing in our business. And the truth is that that kind of exposure can both show how vulnerable you are and can completely leave you paralyzed. Rick called me and he began to explain what was going on. At one, I couldn’t believe it. Two, I went and watched the video and I was like that’s classic Rick. I’ve known him for a long time but he was instantly overwhelmed with what to do next because there were so much so much coming at him.

Janet Beckers: Yeah it was it wasn’t planned it was it wasn’t as if this was an orchestrated viral video.

Kevin Breeding: No we did not build the video. This was produced by a media company called Goal cast who is in the business of creating inspirational motivational videos. Their- their Facebook page has 600 million views a month. And we are now the largest viewed video on their platform. And so it’s it’s one of those. Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it because it’s although we would think it would make our business skyrocket it can also make your business implode if you don’t have models and frameworks that can kind of guide you in the midst of chaos. Because chaos can be, chaos can be bad.

Janet Beckers: Yes. Yes. And so, well let’s have a look at- what was the name of the video. So if people haven’t watched it then we’ll have a look but there’s a good chance they’ve have seen it.

Kevin Breeding: I’d say with 120 million viewers, they probably have. The easiest way is if you’re going to Facebook and just search Rick Rigsby, R-I-G-S-B-Y, you’ll find it. It’ll play, it’ll be the first thing that pops up. It’s all- it’s all over the place and still growing every day. So you know it’s it’s been a it’s been a really powerful picture for me one because you know I love my friend and I’m excited for him I’m excited for our business together. But at the same time it was a great reminder for why I coach the way that I do is that you want to dream big but you always come back and do the mechanics you do the work. It’s like going to the gym you know for ever you know in your love you know you’re not going to get out and swim the distances that you swim without being in you know you got to be in the water doing the reps every day. Otherwise you just won’t have the stamina and something goes wrong and also you’re in real trouble. And so it’s just it’s a great reminder for us to be excellent business people as well as you know entrepreneurs full of vision that just go you know fly by the seat of our pants.

Janet Beckers: Yeah. And you know that’s one of the frustrations with people who like us that help entrepreneurs is there’s, there’s so much, you know, rubbish has been put out about “you have the idea that the money will come”. That’s as soon as you start going well you know there’s some boring bits, you know, there’s some boring bits. So you actually got to work hard, keep consistent. You know that’s a hard one to sell. But I reckon, let’s have a look at your process. Let’s talking about diving into one of the five step process. Let’s start I mean we might reflect on what’s been happening you and Rick because this is FRESH right. This is only in the last few weeks much more in the mix right now as we’re recording this. So let’s reflect on that and then we can also reflect on that process because it was that process that actually helped me get clarity on changing my brand from one of over to Romance Your Tribe.

Kevin Breeding: Yup.

Janet Beckers: Let’s look at those two examples because they are very quite different. And as a way of diving in have this five-step process.

Kevin Breeding: Yeah it’s perfect of the timing of this because the kind of the Aha! day for you as I remember going through five steps together was day two, it was the illustrate day. And it it’s interesting that as we are talking about this, Rick and I did illustrate day this morning. I’m sorry. I didn’t think about the timing of all this. It’s fructuous. The whole thing. You know, the day one is all about brainstorming and you’re trying to just put every idea you can possibly pick up on or just throw it up on the wall and say OK what what’s possible here. But day two is where you’re looking at each idea and you’re trying to boil it down to three to five that you think have the highest potential to solve whatever your challenge was. And so you know in Rick’s case we’re looking at you know are we looking at live events. Are we looking at a TV show and if it is a TV show is it a documentary style you know news magazine telling stories. Or is it a talk show. And so you know it’s all of this sort of sort of analysis of ideas. And as I think back to when ever you and I went through illustrate day just the way it works for everybody that’s listening is illustrate as you take your three to five sort of what we call our finalist ideas. And we take them one at a time. Put it in the middle of the table and we say OK. All of a sudden this is now we pretend this is our only option that we have left and we’re going to take the other four and set them aside and for a moment we’re going to assume that they will not work. We have to make this idea the one that we are talking about at the moment work and we take 10, 15, 20 minutes and sort of develop it out and let it let it sort of blossom into a full fledged idea with with great things. Now I will tell you. Sometimes, looking at the three to five that one of them will instantly sort of wither away as we think about it and let it sort of expose a bit. We’ll realize that it’s not as good of an idea as we thought. There’s something about it that doesn’t really work but the beauty of what an illustrate day does in five step is one of these. You do your first one and you set it aside and you take number two and you’ll do the exact same process again you’ll think through as though it’s the only one of the five that you’re, it’s going to be your magic bullet it’s your your Barney Fife silver bullet in the Andy Griffith American parlance there. So you’re trying to figure out how. Which is the best idea. And for what reason. And the beauty of it is as I remember the day that I went through this is the note that I tell people in the process that is you want these five ideas to compete with one another so that you have the potential of having multiple great winning ideas that are competing for your final choice which happens on session 3. And I remember you said to me that whenever you do that want to give you freedom that you didn’t have to make a decision that day and that minute so you just think creatively and strategically. But then it also gave you the confidence that you’re making a great decision because you’re giving it the ability to breathe and show itself to be the best idea. And it sounds so simple but I’ve seen it hundreds of times now be incredibly powerful to let people kind of be open up and say I can make this decision with confidence because now I know I fought my way through it strategically and systemically.

Janet Beckers: Yeah. Absolutely because I can remember that process because it made me realize that I do. I have tended to fast track some parts of it because like a lot of entrepreneurs it’s like this you just get this stuff done like this. So I’m thinking and going down all these paths and so sometimes you’ll go with this seems like the right option. And then you go down that whole path. Some of you actually use the process I did with you. And then I’ve used that thing happen with the next step. So for me I was trying to make the decision of do I go back to the future you know do I make Wonderful Web Women very much all about women again. And because I had generalized out I mean I go back to that do I reap, I totally brand everything as Janet Beckers, is it Janet Beckers dot com. Everything Janet Beckers? Or do I let the Romance Your Tribe system become the hero. And so the three of those would all work, all of them would work really well. And so I was I reckon I was in a state of flux for about a year. I tried to make this decision and every time it went straight back to what was the fancy term that you had given about my.

Kevin Breeding: You went back to progressive cognitive atrophy.

Janet Beckers: Yes. I was sitting in absolutely. And I can actually remember when we went through this process and then I came back to you when I realized that one that I had always defaulted back to which was going back to Wonderful Web Women was the one that was not going to work. And actually I had a grieving process.

Kevin Breeding: I remember you said to me it’s like choosing one of your children.

Janet Beckers: It was! Exactly.

Kevin Breeding: And so that’s that’s the thing that I love about a framework model. And here again it doesn’t have to be this one. I’m saying this about any framework model that you can plug in your business and plug into how you are building up your tribe is that it. In the midst of confusion where emotions can taint the logic in the decision making process you want to go back to that which you know has served you well before. And so you know again I’m a I’m a visionary guy and I like to go do things and kind of wander off and explore. I’m an explorer archetype by my wiring but I know that.

Janet Beckers: I’ve seen it.

Kevin Breeding: A lot of it but I’ve figured out that that explorers sometimes can go with our gut but in our gut sometimes is jaded by what we’re comfortable with or by what we know vs. what we don’t. You know in some ways we end up sort of defaulting and sometimes maybe even settling. And so a framework like this gives you the freedom to say you know what I’ve thought it through well. I have good reason to make this decision and it doesn’t take long. It does in fact you’ve done it now enough to wear it it’s just become second nature. You can test when it’s really kind of work through. How do I look at this objectively. To be able to say this is the best and the most right and the most on brand decision I can make.

Janet Beckers: Yeah. Yeah. And I think an important part for us entrepreneurs is say if you’ve got three to five you know is giving each one an even chance to win. And quite often we’ll go down one and we’ll go. Well now you know that’s some work. And so you’ll tend to not pay attention so giving yourself that freedom and permission to take the time and really focus on each one equally. I like the idea that they were competition. Yeah. And I use that since then once I made the decision that it was Romance Your Tribe with my social media being Janet Beckers and then I looked. Okay. Now when it comes down to what am I going to be doing for my content what’s going to be the best for that brand and rest the best for my Tribe. And you’ll see the results. It was the podcast. Because one of the things that I recognized through that process that I wasn’t doing that I absolutely love was interviewing people and talking to people like you can. So it’s a great process to be able to work through so I think as a way of kind of wrapping up let’s do a little bit of a loop because we’ve seen what the result was when I worked through the process. We’ve looked at the change in the brand and then we’ve also looked at making the decision on the content marketing plan. So you, I know that you’re right in the middle now. All of this one one client, and you know you have numerous clients. So yeah I’m curious about you’ve gone through now the imagining stage but you’ve got the next stage to go through so. Yes. So what’s going to happen next in the life of Kevin.

Kevin Breeding: Well you know the right answer this very moment is I’m not completely sure. But the beauty is I have complete confidence in the process because what’s happening is what was a friendship that turned into a client is now turning into media opportunities for me and and a lot of exposure. I mean Rick, just the other night, on one of his Facebook lives talked about his personal coach and his business coach and how had he not had that relationship in place he’d been curled up in the corner and has called me very very quickly in moments when he was up against going on and doing a live moment where he was like you know I’m not sure what to say. And it was just a good picture that you know we all go through those challenges and thoughts. And so just by him mentioning me in one of his Facebook lives I had this influx of people come over and start to look at my page and it goes back to when you have exposure that we all desire and want in our business. You have to have a method and a process to be able to think your way through it. So so what’s happening for me is the good news is the business is growing. The question is is how do I go into a more public sort of taking a role and being that thought leader or do I stay in the coaching model where I’m sort of the visionary and sort of the wizard behind the drapes that’s helping them craft the way a story gets told. And that’s right where I’m at. I’m in the middle of of Step Three of the five which is where I’m trying to indicate which one that’s going to be. And the only thing I can tell you is as soon as I know, you’re going to be the first to know, because I’m just I’m at a spot where I don’t have to make a decision today which I’m happy about but I’m also really weighing what fits me as a brand what I enjoy doing that can be most impactful to my tribe and even my eventual tribe. And then also what can do the most good because I go back to you know the people that I serve. They want to grow quickly. They want to. They know that they have to do internal work to do that done and they want to do something bigger than just make money.

Janet Beckers: Yeah.

Kevin Breeding: That’s me. Not everybody’s true about this but I am my own consumer. And so the reason why it works for me is because I am making a decision now to figure out where the greatest impact is in helping leaders move to that level or do I step in that role myself while also helping leaders do that. So that’s that’s where I’m at and I’m interested in what the outcome is going to be because I don’t know.

Janet Beckers: Yeah. And you know by the time that we go through live with this, we may know the results. And so I think that’s a beautiful note for us to end on. I love how you brought this back to your tribe and tell what your core values are which is how your tribe knows if they belong hanging around with you as the leader. And that’s actually you’re just such a beautiful demonstration of what a tribal leader looks like and that tribal leader is around clarity and being able to say this is what we believe around here. And you’ve just done it so beautifully and clearly there at the end. And so I’m very excited to see what happens next. And I know whatever’s it’s gonna be, Kevin is going to do it with absolute brilliance. And and and a sense of fun. Thank you so much for your time Kevin. I’m really excited to introduce you to my Tribe. So people should be able to connect with you more and get more information on the sort of frameworks that you do. What’s the best place for people to contact you.

Kevin Breeding: I’m an easy date on this one. The easiest one is to go to my website. Kevin Breeding dot com. And right right there on the front page there is an e-book called Mastering Mindset in it and it starts the conversation around the five step process.

Janet Beckers: Mhm.

Kevin Breeding: It’s also the notes of about 15 interviews that I did with some of the top entrepreneurs in across multiple industries and so it’d be a super handy tool for everybody to come over and grab and I’d love love for them too.

Janet Beckers: Absolutely. Well thank you so much Kevin. And thank you everybody that’s been here listening. Thank you so much for your time. And one of the things that I do encourage you to do is you know Kevin’s been incredibly generous with his time and his transparency today. And one of the most rewarding things for us is to hear back from you. What do you get out of that. So I really do encourage you to hunt this man down. So I will not go to any of your mailing list or you find him on Facebook. It’s just going connect and telling him you know at least one aha that you got from today is one of the greatest gifts you can get.

Kevin Breeding: That’s awesome. Thank you for that. That’s awesome.

Janet Beckers: Bye everybody.

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