In this week’s podcast I interview Ludwina Dautovic about how to get startup capital for a business, in quite an unconventional way.
Ludwina is the founder and CEO of a startup called The Room Xchange. It’s an innovative mash of the Airbnb model with a social enterprise edge, that is creating real social change for time poor households and those struggling with the high cost of living.
The Room Xchange has the potential to be a multi million dollar company but required huge investment in technical, legal and marketing to get it off the ground.
Ludwina initially followed the conventional path to raise the capital with multiple pitches to venture capitalists but no offers came her way.
Then Ludwina decided to do it her way.
In today’s episode Ludwina shares her unconventional way to get startup capital for a business and then maps out a roadmap you can adapt to build on your own natural strengths.
Join us for this cut-to-the-chase interview via audio, video or transcript. We’d love to hear your thoughts and any experiences and advice YOU have on how to get startup capital for a business.
You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below.
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- I interview Ludwina, a close friend and founder of The Room XChange
- What is The Room XChange and how did it start?
- Ludwina tells us about Social Impact and how it’s been a massive conversation in the business world
- We talk about the one thing Ludwina developed for years that was key to her strategy working
- Traditional pitches vs. what you COULD do
- We talk about YOUR story and different ways to look at how you can modify Ludwina’s strategy to capitalise on YOUR strengths.
- Ludwina shares how she discarded the traditional capital raising method and turned the process in her favour… with immediate results.
Introducing Ludwina Dautovic
Ludwina Dautovic is a successful entrepreneur for over with over two decades of start-up and digital media experience. As Founder and CEO of The Room Xchange, Ludwina has created an online platform, which connects busy households with a spare room in their home (Hosts) with Guests who provide 2 hours of domestic help each day in exchange for food and accommodation, all of which is managed on a sophisticated platform driven by algorithms and an empathetic customer experience.
Ludwina has recently had a successful first capital raise. The company has also recently won two business awards, Editors Choice – Anthill Top 100 Coolest Company Awards and named a finalist in the New Business Category in the Australian Small Business Champion Awards.
Ludwina is regularly called upon as a commentator in media outlets including Australian Financial Review, 3AW, CMO, Sky News, The Age, The Herald Sun, Business Insider, The CEO Magazine and many more.
Read The Transcript Here
Janet Beckers: Hello and welcome everybody. Janet Beckers here on Romance Your Tribe radio. I’m really excited about today’s episode because I’m introducing you to a wonderful friend who I have known through our businesses for years and years and years. In fact, when I very very first launched Wonderful Web Women. So we’re going back quite a long time. Ludwina was part of our community back then and I have absolutely loved watching the ay that she has continued to really explore the best ways that she can make an impact and then really be open to being able to do that in innovative ways. And so this is a woman who I have just admired her real go getter approach to business and today we’re really going to explore a where that has led because Ludwina now has launched this amazing business called theroomxchange. We’re going to go a lot into that today and then we’re also going to look at when it comes to building a really big impactful business that is going to be helping thousands whatever probably hundreds of thousands of people, ultimately. How do you go about doing that when you’ve got a lot of resources you need to bring together and a lot of funding you need to bring together? We’ll look at the really clever way Ludwina we took charge of that process and did things in her own way and we’re going to share with you how you can apply what she did to your business no matter how large or small it is. So welcome Ludwina, it is so wonderful to welcome you here.
Ludwina Dautovic: Janet, I’m getting memories here. I don’t know how many years ago. It was the first time that you interviewed me. I think it was gosh it must be at least 12 years ago. It’s really nice to see it again a little bit.
Janet Beckers: Yeah yeah it’s some it’s gone back a long way isn’t it? And over that time we’ve kind of you know come back in to contact and and our paths cross quite a lot and then we’ll go off and then we’ll come back and just it’s one of those beautiful sort of reunions. So but always very- two women who are incredibly committed to making an impact. So you’ll never ever see us doing anything small. So Ludwina to dive straight into it. You know and people get ready to take notes when you’re listening to this because our intention is to give you the maximum value we can in about 20 minutes so we’re going to be really just going straight through to be able to give you as much actionable content as we can but to start Ludwina. Can you tell us about a little bit about yourself and the room exchange and what is it? Tell us all about this fantastic huge program that you’ve launched.
Ludwina Dautovic: So I am 51 going 52 Janet, gosh, where did the years go? I live in Melbourne. I’ve been an entrepreneur for 25 years and I’ve learned a lot along the way she said. That has really led me to this place now which I think is I think I’ve it in the last 25 years of actually learning and growing to you know for me to be able to have all the resources and tools that I’ve got not just personally but also the contacts it helped me develop The Room Exchange. There’s no way I could have kicked into this you know 10 years ago without that. So there’s been a number of things over the course of my career that have you know educated me and feel that those connections. So that’s one thing that’s really important I think in the message that you were just saying to something that people can be just like that. The relationships that you build and develop over the years are just gold and you can maintain and in many ways, it’s genuine and be helpful to other people then that will make it. It’s making a massive impact for me right now. So the room exchange is a P2P platform. People would understand the sharing economy space. What we’re doing is utilizing underutilized resources that exist to help solve a number of issues in our world. It is a for profit company but it’s a social- it has social impact. And what I mean by that is that we’re helping a number of different people in our communities solving problems for them that are all based around the high cost of living, high cost housing, and that’s not going to change in this country. So essentially the room exchange is a platform that connects phasey stressed households who we call those with guess who are willing to provide two hours of help around the house each day in exchange for food and accommodation.
Janet Beckers: Right so I think about this I mean one of the ones that I’m sure that you get you know that people will use as a reference point is something like AirBnB but it’s completely different. When I think about the people who will use this I think people want my mum. So she’s a woman who is very independent. Absolutely loves where she lives but she’s a few hours away from her kids and so we’re always trying to find ways to when we can’t be there to find ways to be able to support her and help her. And one of the things that she’s thought about every now and then is being able to get some kind of border that would live with her to be able to help. How do you find them? How do you know you can trust them? How do you how do you arrange? How do you find somebody that would be willing to provide you know kind of help around the home and the property? There’s always been something that stopped her from doing it to stop us from being able to find that for her. So would that be like a typical client that’d use your platform?
Ludwina Dautovic: Actually you’ve identified one of our four host personas so we have for example is elderly one. I’m not sure if your mother sits in that category but it’s how she does it. Okay. So she needs and support. There’s a lot of elderly people. In fact that’s probably one of the most demographics in terms of available spare bedrooms in homes. Yeah. Also empty nests, there’s been a lot of talk with the government trying to push people like my husband and I to downsize now that our kids have left home then I’m sorry. I’ve worked really hard all my life I’m not downsizing now. I enjoy the time that I have but instead of downsizing I want to share it. And that’s another way to utilize the spare rooms here. We’ve also identified busy professionals so people in their 30s. They are working long hours to develop their careers and they may also have the obvious one a busy family since I was talking to somebody yesterday and I cannot imagine raising children today. The high cost associated in the long hours that both mom and dad need work or both parents to work just to be able to make ends meet. So if you think that we’re focusing on in terms of yes young adults so I know that you’ve got a couple yourself and a lot of young adults that are staying at home until they’re 30 and you know, forgive me, for anyone who doesn’t like to hear this but I think the children adult children need to leave home to really become fully fledged adults. And also students, university, are often having to travel an hour or two either way or I’m just a costume but housing is prohibitive and then there’s a demographic that we’re calling Inbetweeners. And these inbetweeners are people who, the demographic for homelessness interestingly enough women over 50 who are finding themselves divorced. It takes about two years for settlement to come through and they are often left homeless in that time they just what we call in between there in between one point of life and another. somebody Might want to write a book or start a business maybe save some money to buy a house or get to travel overseas. So there’s a huge difference in what somebody might want to exchange, on both sides.
Janet Beckers: And so this is interesting so you’ve got these people with the empty rooms and then you’ve got to can you hear my dog barking? This is you can tell the way we’re not just scripting all these folks. Let me just Let my dog out. Was yeah he’d get so excited. So the interesting thing here is a lot of times when you look at once when it comes to you’ve got people were going into your room and they’re thinking “Oh look I’ll rent this out.” If you go down the B&B model, not even AirBnb but just B&B. You know you could be in hospitality. You’re always got people coming in and out. They’re short stay usually. And for a lot of people, that’s just too much work and too risky. There’s a lot that’s involved with that whereas what you’re doing is you’re matching those people where it’s long term. So it’s great security for both parts but instead of it being exchanging money, it’s exchanging value. Would that be the way that it works out?
Ludwina Dautovic: Exactly. So te host gets their time back and the guests gets exponentially cut the cost of living and it’s I know you’ve identified something that’s really important. The platform that we’re that we’ve built is it’s got all of the verification and security aspects. We partnered with Digital ID which is a new product that just released so that people can prove who they are.
Janet Beckers: Right. Brilliant.
Ludwina Dautovic: They can apply directly through our platform in partnership with CV check. They can also encourage people to work with children to apply for work with children checks and all those badges will be on the on the actual platform. If they’ve got them then they’ll be approved and put them on the platform so people can see that. But we’ve also got 10 million dollar public liability insurance policy which is a heck of a lot more than a lot of other platforms in this space so we really looked at all of the various different aspects. Plus the Education too. It’s really important to teach you know to show people how to be a good host and how to be a good guest because you don’t want the highest to abuse the time from the guest. You don’t want be laxed day and not you know providing what they need. And then you’re right, there’s no money exchanged hands that they just paid to our platform a small user fee which works out less than a thousand dollars a year. Our previous model that includes all of the aspects of the security, the safety. Worked out to like $2 a day or something. It’s crazy.
Janet Beckers: Fantastic yeah. I love that idea. Because that was going to be my next question because I’m sure everybody else is thinking about this. “okay. Nobody’s exchanging money here. How are you making money from this?” And so that’s the way that you’re working is that both parties pay a small fee which are two dollars a day is just absolutely nothing for what they’re going to be getting in return. So a lot of I love the idea. You have mentioned a few times Australia. So is this an Australian-only business that you’ve launched or what’s your plans?
Ludwina Dautovic: So I’m an Australian owned company. And that’s important I think people say it’s very important to me. We have. I’ll just give you a bit of framework. We’ve been testing the model over the last couple years and yeah we’ve had a whole lot of media. Last year we had the case studies operating and we’re about to raise capital year which I know we’re going to talk about seeing and so we’re just about to launch our next iteration of our tech platform which is really exciting which will automate everything. But what we’ve found in the process over the last couple of years while we’ve had people be able to register is that we have registrations in 34 countries and I know it’s crazy crazy. So it’s proving to us obviously and this was our intention from the start to to expand internationally but of course I know Australia very well so I wanted to test the model in Australia with Australian laws and an Australian Team before we expand. But what we’ve done with this new platform is that we’ve we’ve built it so that it’s easily scalable internationally and that’s the most important thing. So we’re looking at not just where we want to be in a year but two years five years down the track.
Janet Beckers: Oh absolutely because I imagine this is the kind of thing that would be. This is can be worldwide. I don’t know how many times I’ve watched case study videos from very very different countries where it’s talked about young people living with old people and the big difference that it’s made to. Their happiness for both parties. And this is one thing that’s really been top of my mind I suppose because I have you know an elderly parents and I have children who, I’ve got one starting uni this year. So that’s something that I really noted and it is worldwide. This is – I love the idea that what you’ve created is sure. It has very sound business model behind it but also the difference that this can be making to people’s lives is just huge. Absolutely huge. And so before we get on to the finance side of it, I just want to talk to you a little bit about that social impact behind that because I know this is one of the things that we talked about quite a bit when we were just catching up together and I was going man, I got to interview you on this. Was, you know, why? why this particular model for you? Why is why are you passionate about this?
Ludwina Dautovic: Janet it’s one of those stories that you know my husband and I were just living his life for years and it was just something that organically occurred for me when it came to the point of conversation where we realised that did you know this and if you hear people say five or more times it’s a good idea, probably is. And so that’s how it began and I read the point you know kids just like time debt free remortgage to house put in 300 grand of our own money for the first 2 years. And you know but what we realised, we didn’t realise this at the start but once we started to expand the idea and look at it beyond our own experience people kept saying exactly what you’ve just said and the difference it’s going to make. And Social Impact is something that in the last 12 months has been a massive conversation in the marketplace. And you know as well as I do if you can be right on the cusp of when the right time is then you’re at the right time if you too well you’re too early too late to like right now the conversation is about social impact. Very much so and you know the millennial generation are really looking at ways to minimise wastage too. They want to be in rest of their lives to have a house. They want more flexibility in terms of how they work and how they live and they want to experience life now, not later as our generation was more likely to do with it. You know the great Australian dream of owning a home. So they’re really pushing this whole sharing economy and social impact space and I think anybody who can really understand the business and understand that instead of complaining or whingeing about how different the millennials are really look at the value that they’re contributing to how they’re changing the world and social impact is one of them. So looking at you know if you’re coming up or developing a business idea, how can it change the world and how can you make money out of it? We’re definitely a multimillion dollar concept. We’re not ashamed of that but we’re doing it with a very low barrier to entry. making Sure we have an impact which will make it viral socially which is what we want and we want to help as many people as possible and have what we call exchange stories shared so that other people can see that and that is the that’s where the economy is heading really is not just about big businesses or about wasting money on them. The middle management it’s you know everyday people now have access to be able to develop an idea even without any money like we had our house which was an asset at the time are we at the age of 50 dare to use it. But I personally believe that unless you get it back yourself nobody else. You shouldn’t ask anyone else to but you know there are lots of different ways that we can access and people even in my age group who are finding themselves out of the workplace but we’ve got lots of experience great ideas they’ve got an acid house there you can actually fund something and get started and make a massive difference. Give yourself a future. There’s just so much that’s available to us now. Like at how tech has changed since you and I started.
Janet Beckers: He’s having trouble The remote control of the telly.
Ludwina Dautovic: That Keeps it full.
Janet Beckers: I just love that concept that you’ve just talked about whingeing about the millennials, look at the change that they’re creating in our economy and really really embrace it. That’s a really really positive point. Now let’s look at you mentioned about you know you have an asset so you just moved and were backing yourself. So I love that you make that point if you’re not going back yourself, why should you expect anybody else to back you. So let’s move over to the some how tos here for people because one of the things that does you know if you’re building a big concept business like Ludwina is, you know, there’s going to be huge needs for outlays of infrastructure for creating the infrastructure for creating of the legal side. There Is a lot of big numbers that happen there. But even if what you’re creating is not going to be on this scale but still requires that there is going to have to be you know you’re going to have to get resources together. So there’s a few different ways that you can be creative around doing that. I loved when I was talking to you Ludwina before here about how you went about doing that. So if we have a talk now about the different ways that you can be raising funding to be able to finance your business and your launch and let’s talk about how your experience with that and have you then took control of that scenario? So over to you, baby.
Ludwina Dautovic: That was very interesting. So I’ve invested in five tech companies over the last five or six years and I’ve worked very closely with a lot of CEOs develop lots relationships. Learnt and understood you know what it means to raise capital, went to shareholder update meetings. I really absorb myself in the process and I’m very fortunate that I’ve got two incredible advisors who are both in this capital raising space. So I thought I had a I thought I had it I thought yep, I’ll be investor-ready which is a first step. You have to be ready now but all of it really to be it’s a tough one in and of itself.
Ludwina Dautovic: But once you are ready and you’ve got a 10-minute pitch down which that in and of itself again is another that’s a big one. The traditional way generally of pitching is getting in front of the crowd as you know investors and. There’s a number of different ways you can do that. You can pay it to be at an event pitch and then they get the people in the room. I was fortunate to have been invited into a number of boardrooms with investors from the people that were running that investment group near me and I’d been vouched for. I was in front of 400 people once at the Hilton Hotel in Sydney. And it was really interesting I had a lot of people come out to me and say what a great idea this is. You know, know I’d love to have you to come back to us when you’re in round two. And it was just like great idea you become back to when you’ve got this dismissed. And I swear I was just thinking today when I was riding my bike is one thing I think they had I’d say 50 plus rejections.
Janet Beckers: Oh truly.
Ludwina Dautovic: In terms of a nice polite you know great idea but to me it’s just as much saying you know, “no not now”. And then then I’m thinking well why would I come back to you in round two because whoever is going to invest me in round one they’re gonna get first deets in round two. So the whole idea was really new to me. I also realised that the traditional VC funds and the way that the whole investment world set up the majority of the investors that I was in front of were more interested in investing what was above the ground in property or something solid and real for what was below-the ground. Right.
Janet Beckers: Okay.
Ludwina Dautovic: And the sharing economy generally don’t own things because we’re sharing underutilised resources that already exist. So. It was challenging for them to get the value in the assets around the company and that was a challenge and that I had to sort of look at. So after about eight months and I don’t like to lose so I’m still trying to figure out a way that I could get the capital because we were running out of money like we had a limit on what we could afford to spend and were running out. And so I decided well you know my team kept reminding me you’re all about food, dinner at your house, company, embracing People. Why don’t you just do it in a way that you would? I said yeah let’s do it in a pub. So I had a righteous fit that we the honey buyer in South Melbourne I have to mention that because David which is wonderful supporter of businesses and the room could only fit 120 and we had 150 show up. It was crazy outside. We have celebrities and people from government and industry leaders. I had someone from South Australian Government fly up to speak. We had there was (name?). We had talked Jim Minnefee from the Grattan Institute the policy makers. He came and opened the night we had made some of its Facebook. We had someone from property. It was just crazy like the support that I’ve got in terms of speakers. We had a panel and then when I gave my presentation I had 30 minutes because it was my party.
Janet Beckers: Yes. “My Party.”.
Ludwina Dautovic: And so I was able to really share the whole social impact not just about the numbers and the company structure. And that’s one thing that’s typically required in that 10 minute pitch. And what happened was I invited people to that event who’d been following me over the previous year and included some VC funders and some people who were just recently starting to find out who I was and literally overnight I had four invitations to have meetings with funders that wanted to fund me.
Janet Beckers: Fantastic. The thing I love about this is there’s… There’s really three things that for me are really important lessons for people who are listening is number one. I really like the idea that you went from you go into their place so they were holding the party they had the position of power. I mean they’ve got money so they’ve got power but you are then going to their place. You have a set amount of time they you and you were the one leading. So that was kind of setting up you know you’re in control of everything which would be the norm and I really like what you did. “All right well I’m throwing the party. This is our place. We’re just taking everything. We’re not we’re just going to be setting the scene and they are being invited”. It’s a very very different dynamic to be able to do that. So that was number one. You were changing that power dynamic. Then Number two is really looking at “what do I do well” and you are a very hospitable person. Every business model you’ve done has been around making people welcome and creating some kind of sense of event. So looking at what you naturally do very very well because that’s what’s going to take off. So how can you use whatever you naturally do well and use it in that situation for other people when they’ve done something completely different. But I like you know drawing on that. And number three and this is really really powerful because this is what works well for selling anything is you’ve got to share the story. You’ve Got to share the passion you’ve got to be willing to get up there it’s talk from the heart and share stories and you create a situation where you do that and look at the result that you got from having you know 50 rejections to having four invitations. I mean that is- those are really important lessons I think for people who are listening here no matter what you’re looking at raising the funds for. So is there anything else that you’d like to share in lessons on ways of being able to raise that finance with people things that are going to help them.
Ludwina Dautovic: And as I mentioned before we’re in a very interesting time right now because people are starting to question not just in the investment space but in business in general. What’s the- what’s the use of the middle man? You know what is all this middle stuff that’s going on that is causing things to cost a whole lot more.
Janet Beckers: Yeah right.
Ludwina Dautovic: Yes because of technology. It must be the delivery man doorbell. To deliver that delivery that day. You know there’s a number of different ways that you know investors are not necessarily. Wealthy people. Investors could be you and I. And the reason I say that is because of platforms like IndieGoGo for example one that allows everyday people doing this but someone has got a concept or an idea can present that and then is crowdsourcing in some way of crowdfunding and what the beautiful thing is happening. I don’t know too much about this I’ve only just started to recently hear about it. Is that ASIC are changing the laws in terms of being able to source for capital raising. So that means it’s opening up the door now for everyday people and excluding the need for getting to the whoever is a gatekeeper or the decision maker behind the fund to be able to get access to funding. So as I said I don’t know a whole lot about it so I think by anyone’s you know I did some research on it but. There are limits in terms of how many shareholders we can have. It’s a private company for example. When you when you’re capital raising. Publicly Listed company, it’s very different from where a private company. So if we want to raise more you know have more shareholders than the allocated amount then we have to change the structure of the company but because of that how things are shifting at the moment, it means that you can have to be careful. I don’t know too much but I was just listening to a podcast this morning actually about the guy who started IndieGoGo and I really encourage people to consider that there are other ways that you can raise capital. You can do what I did and have your own party and invite people who know you but I still have to you know be in front of all those people in the previous eight months to invite them to come and to hear about The Room Exchange.
Janet Beckers: Good Points.
Ludwina Dautovic: And I still have to have the media. So I still recommend that you do go out and pitch but just don’t feel that it’s the only way to do it. The other thing I think it’s also important to let people know is that this whole startup space although it’s been around for a while it’s actually very, it’s becoming this sort of I guess is world on its own. And within anything that’s sort of new and vibrant people get excited about, there’s a lot of opportunities for people to be misled and also perhaps charged for things that they may not require. So if I can say anything to round this up is that the most important thing that has got me through this is having the right advisors who have experience in this industry and who have my heart and my and my life they hold that very dear to them right. It’s not their own personal gain although they will gain from it. But it’s about making sure that I’m looked after and then I’ve got these people, these two guys that I can run all these decisions past. And It’s not just them. it’s My marketing team, my PR team, my you know my personal assistant, my creative team. We have 15 other tech company. Everyone is working on The Room Exchange is around 15 or 20 people. It’s massive and all of those people have got that holding me very dear to them and making sure that I’m okay and that perhaps all of my decisions, I’ve run past all my decisions by them. And that’s really important and that has only been made about 60 grands worth of mistakes which is pretty silly.
Janet Beckers: That’s pretty cool, actually. I’ve made a lot more than that in the past.
Ludwina Dautovic: Anyway with my business, that was when we first started it was my own money. But but yeah it was you know it could have been worse but I’m glad I learnt that then so it’s not my investors’ money now and I’ve got this amazing team of people made because every dollar I spend is money that people have worked hard for, given me in faith, to turn that into something profitable. And there’s a massive responsibility that I can’t blow that all out.
Janet Beckers: That is such a fantastic way to wrap up and I love how you have brought every single thing back to people. You know people the people who are investing in you and supporting you love your story and they’re supporting you. But it’s a really good thing to remember that when you are looking for investors whether they are putting in just a small amount and there’s a lot of them something like Indiegogo or whether you’ve got people who are going to invest a lump sum amount of money or their time through the mentoring. Cool. And I have worked hard and they are showing faith in you. So I think that that is a really beautiful way to be able to finish this and it really ties in with who I know you are, which is always very much about people and about caring and creating that lovely little, you know, huddle around you. So which is why I know that you Well this is already launched and it’s going to continue to actually reach those goals so I’m very very excited for you. So for people who are listening that would like to know more about you and to contact you to find out about how they can get involved – What’s the best thing for them to do?
Ludwina Dautovic: Well if you want to contact me directly, the best way would be to LinkedIn. And Janet will probably have my name written somewhere. The Room Xchange is letter X-change it’s not E so the room letter X-change Dot com (theroomxchange.com) Is our Web site. @theroomxchange on all the social media platforms. I’d love for you to support us by jumping over there. We’ve got some pretty exciting stuff coming up with the next stage of our tech platform being launched in a few weeks and anything if you want to have a conversation with me about potential partnerships or if you’re curious about becoming a host or a guest, just leave a message on Facebook or on LinkedIn and we’ll be in touch.
Janet Beckers: Absolutely. And for people who are listening to this through the podcast if you come over to the Website where this episode is I’ll have always links there for you so that you can just link straight over go and see Ludwina. And one of the things I ask you to do is go and take action this week. So from what we’ve been learning here, action steps that I can see that you can be taking is looking at, you know, what sort of resources do you need for your business to take it to the next level. Is that something that you can be doing funding? So number one, looking at. Number Two is have a look: what can you do yourself? Like Ludwina said, said if you’re not going to willing to invest in this yourself and that investment is going to be your time and energy as much as it’s going to be your money, why expect anybody else to? And then look at now about getting investor-ready and whether that’s going to be on a Website whether that’s going to be pitching whatever it’s going to be, being investor-ready and I loved how Ludwina said it it’s all about relationships. So don’t try and dive straight in there and see I’m just going to put something up on IndieGoGo and make all my money or contact people. You’ve got to nurture those relationships because that is where the long-term investment and growth in your business is going to happen. So if you can take action on those points, and when you take action, come back here. Share on with us. And one of the most rewarding things for Ludwina and myself is to hear from you about actions that you’ve taken from what we’ve shared. So please do that and contact Ludwina to let her know what kind of impact she’s had. Hey thank you, everybody for your time today and thank you so much. Ludwina’s got just one more point to share.
Ludwina Dautovic: I know, I can’t believe it. I didn’t mention it when I was talking but I want to give a massive thank you to Joe Galvez at Thundering Herd who were the fund that said yes to me.
Janet Beckers: Right.
Ludwina Dautovic: Really. Yeah because you know they they saw the value in this and I love those guys so much and it is wonderful to work with so thanks Joe Galvez, Thundering Herd. I hope that was okay, Janet.
Janet Beckers: Yeah that’s brilliant! And if you like, you can see- I will also include some links so you can go and check them out as well so we’ll put that there on our blog posts as well. So thanks you so much for your time Ludwina. Go get them, girlfriend. Bye!
Ludwina Dautovic: Bye!