5 Types of High Priced Offers and the One Thing That Makes Them Irresistible

5 Types of High Priced Offers and the One Thing That Makes Them Irresistible

I LOVE helping my clients create High Priced Offers that are totally unique to their business and match their zone of genius.

When you introduce a High Priced Offer into your offer mix it can revolutionise your business. It allows you to work with highly motivated clients, get great results for them, brilliant case studies and make far more money in your business with less stress (believe it or not it IS less stress).

That’s why this is one of the first things I strategize with my clients on when we dive into the Package For Profit training modules in my Attract Your Tribe programs.

I’m here to bust a myth right here and right now.

Myth: High Priced Offers are hard to sell and only work if you already have a highly successful business and huge tribe.

Fact: It is just as hard / easy to sell a high priced offer as it is to sell lower priced offers, especially when you need to sell far more lower priced programs to make the same money.

But: ONLY if you construct the high priced offer in a way that makes it absolutely irresistible to the people who are willing to pay for you to fast track their results so they achieve their goals with less stress and less time.

That’s what we’ll be doing today

In today’s masterclass podcast episode you will learn:

  • The definition of a high priced offer (or high ticket or VIP)
  • The concepts of Transformational Journey, Transformational Framework, Transformational Milestones and Transformational Promise… and why you should care
  • The #1 most important thing that makes a high priced offer irresistible
  • The Profitable Avatar and who is most likely to buy your High Priced Offer
  • 5 different types of High Priced Offers you can implement NOW
  • Which offer type is best when you are just starting out and which is best when your business has a tribe and a proven system
  • Examples of how each of the 5 types can be used
  • I have even created a downloadable cheat sheet so you can choose the best type of High Priced Offer to start with and identify what you need to have in place before offering more advanced types of offers


Plus a special podcast bonus for you today. An action guide to download
“Cheat Sheet. Design Your Irresistible High Priced Offer”.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

Click the image below to download the BONUS worksheet!

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d love for you to take a quick minute to share your thoughts with us and leave an honest review and rating for the show over on iTunes!

Read The Transcript Here

Hello and welcome! Janet Beckers here. I’ve got a very special teaching episode of Romance Your Tribe Radio for you today. Today, we’re going to be looking at what makes a high-end offer, a high-ticket offer, absolutely irresistible. So we’re going to have a look at what is a high-end offer? So, we’re both going to be talking about the same thing. Then, what we’re going to have a look at the number one thing that makes it absolutely irresistible, what makes a high end offer successful or not?

Once we’ve identified that number one thing, I’m going to walk through with you, the process that you need to go through in order for you to get super-duper clear on that so that it makes it very easy for you to feel confident to be able to charge what you’re worth and to be able to confidently communicate that to the people who are going to buy.

To make that easy for you, I’ve got a downloadable that goes with today that’s going to walk you through the questions that you need to be able to do in order to be able to create a high-end offer that’s going to be irresistible. So, make sure you go to the podcast page for that and you can download it. It’s absolutely free and it’s eight fill-in-the-blanks PDF so that you can just fill it in online or print it out if you choose to do that. So, that’s going to help you to be able to take action today.

Now once we’ve got clear on that, then what I’m going to do is I’m going to go over five different types of high-end offers that you can be doing now. These are going to be high end offers that go from, if you’re right at the very beginning of your business, you may have been in it for awhile, but you’re not really sure about offering high-end programs.

Then we’re going to have a look at, but you don’t, may, may not have an emailing list and you may not have a lot of clients that are just waiting for the next offer to come out. Then we’ll look at that. Then we’re going to have a look at progressively the kind of offers that you can be doing through two. If you already have an established business with an established clientele and a mailing list, what can you be doing to be able to offer a high-end offer that is leveraged?

Okay, so I’ll give you three different ones. They can be used for all stages of business across them and that’ll give you an idea of where you can progress. That’s what we’re going to be focusing on today. Now you’re in the right place if you already have a high-end offer, but it’s not converting.

You’re also in the right place if the whole idea of even creating a high priced program totally intimidates you and you cannot even imagine what it’s like to be able to do that. Either one, you’re in the right place, whether it’s going to be your first one and it’s overwhelming you, or if already got an established one, but hey, it’s not converting, what do you need to do to make it so it is going to convert better for you? Okay, so let’s get stuck into it.

So first of all, let’s get clear on what is a high-priced offer. In most industries it’s going to be over the $2,000-$3,000 mark. It’s the kind of offer for your particular market. It’s not the kind of thing that you can just say to people, either from a sales page or that you could do from a series of e-mails or that you can do from having, you know, an offer on your website that’s going to be, you know, here’s my shopping cart, my selection.

It’s goner where people aren’t are as likely to go. That’s what I’ll have that one. Thanks. Or they’ll just buy it online. Now I’m not saying that you can’t sell something that’s two or three. You know, $3,000 and above just from sales letters. And I have done that myself. Normally what you will need to do is you’ll have to have quite a bit of an education process before you sell so that people understand if the offer is for them and what kind of outcomes they can get. So, because of that, quite often people will want to have a conversation and so they will want to hop on the phone with you or they may want to meet you in person if that’s where they will normally be seeing you and have a conversation to see if it’s right for them.

So, think about it in that way. For some people, a high-priced offer, maybe a thousand dollars depending on your industry. For others, a high-priced offer is going to be over five or over 10 or even more. So, it’s going to depend on your industry. But keep that as a ballpark figure. Now, when I say for some industries it may be a thousand. I’m talking about your industry, not just you. If it might be that that scares the life out of you. It’s not necessarily that It’s going to be what people in your industry would/can charge. So, what are people also going to be looking at your potential clients? So that’s just a bit of a deep re-frame for you. You might be thinking, I can’t sell anything over 500 bucks. I better hop on the phone. That’s my challenge to you.

That may be more to do with your perception of the value that you can offer. Listen to what I’m doing today because this will make you a lot clearer on what that value is.

Now, we’ve got clear on what a price range is for a high-end offer. Now we’re going to have a look at what makes a high-end offer convert, what’s the main thing? And then, we’re going to go over some examples so you can get an idea of what they are.

The number one thing that is going to make an offer irresistible or that it’s going to be: “that looks interesting. I like to do that. Yeah. Maybe one day I will” is it needs to have a very distinct outcome. People will pay a lot more money if they can get the outcome that they want to get a very specific outcome.

If you can help them to get that faster or if you can get them, help them to be able to achieve that with far less stress. If you can do that to get that outcome, there will always be a percentage of people who just want that. And believe it or not, it is just as hard, just as easy, just as time consuming, just as quick which fill in what ever you’ve already got in your mind just as much to do for a high-priced program as it is for a low price program.

You may as well see if you can get aim to be able to have higher-priced programs which are incredibly rewarding because you get the outcomes with people. They’re going to be having a much more hands-on approach to being able to get the results they want. That’s incredibly rewarding for you and your business.

If the outcome is the thing that is going to sell people, let’s have a look how you get clear on what kind of outcome people are most likely to be willing to invest more money in to being able to get that outcome. I’m going to walk you through a bit of a process now. I’m going to give it to you, the kind of, you know, birds eye view of this process because the details on this process is core to what I do through my attract your tribe training.

I do that very closely through my higher-end program, my VIP offering, which is my accelerator program, which on the scale of things in the expense of offerings that I have given over the years is probably one of my lower priced ones for the value for the outcome people get.

So that’s core to what I do. I’ll link you through so you can actually see a PDF of what’s in that office so you can get an idea of one offer that you’ve got. With this, I thought that I go into a lot more detail. So if at the end of this you’re thinking I need help. That’s all right. I’ve got all the processes that get you super-duper clear on this, but we’re just going to give you the thumbnail here. To be able to get that outcome that people are willing to pay more for, you need to be exceptionally clear on the transformational journey that you take your clients on. Now, by transformational journey, I mean, where do people start from?

There is a point A, that they are at now and they’re wanting to get to point B. That point B, depending on your industry, may very well be something like “lose a certain amount of weight”. It may be around creating a business with higher-end offers and systematized.

It might be getting through those huge mindset blocks that’s been holding them back. To be able to go on and get the successful outcome that they have identified that they’d been aiming for, but they haven’t been able to get. It could be something like a physical thing depending on your industry. It could be that you’re going to be able to run 10K in a certain amount of time. It depends on your industry.

You can take them from point A to point B. To be able to do this, there’s two other things that you need to be super duper clear on. You need to be super clear on who is it that you help the most. If you can take people from problem to solution you must have a process to get them there.

You could be in a service based business. You could be a consultant. You could be a coach. You could be a done for you type scenario. This can also be applying to products. If you’ve been attracted to me, it’s very likely that you are in an area where you take people through a transformation. So to do that you have to be exceptionally clear on what is the process that you take people through to get from point a to point B. Who is it that you can get those, the results with the best?

If you get a person that has this particular problem, wants to get to this particular area and has these other particular characteristics, you know that you get that person, you can take them from point a to point B, if you just follow the steps. If you know that, you know who your most profitable Avatar is. If they fit that criteria, you know you can get them the outcome.

You have to be very clear on what is the transformational journey that you have a process to help people to get to. And you need to know who is the ideal client that if you get them, if you take them through that process, you know with confidence that you can get them to that outcome. Now with that, you then have a transformational promise.

You can say, “I know with confidence that if you have this problem and these characteristics, I know I can help you get these results.” Then, you have a transformational promise. It is that transformational promise, that outcome that makes your offer irresistible.

Along the way from you taking somebody from point A to point B, there are going to be different milestones and these milestones will also be bumps in the roads. These are the kinds of things that when your client is trying to go from point A to point B, whether they are doing it with your guidance, whether they’re trying to do it on their own without fail, there’s going to be certain points where they’re going to go, do I go left? Do I go right? I feel like I’m sort of up against a brick wall.

You know that there’s always going to be those situations and they need help to be able to get past that onto the next step. When it comes to what you can be offering as a VIP offer, you may be going and by VIP offer, I mean your high ticket item, your high ticket, your high-priced offer is you may be able to go, “I can take you from point A to point B.” That’s what we’re going to do. That’s what I do through my accelerator program.

Point A to point B, right at the end. So, you may go, you know what, I know that people need to get to this milestone first or they might be partway along and I can get them from here to right to the end. If you’ve got those different milestones along, you may decide that you’re going to create your offer for just one particular section of it.

For example, If I was going to be working with you that was going to take you from, you know, where you are in your business now to being able to create a really unique offering and to have attracted a tribe that absolutely loves what you do and to be seen as the tribal business leader. That is the whole way. But I might say, you know what, the very first section we are going to get super clear on the profit in you who you profitable Avatar is and we’re gonna work out some packages that work well for them. That might be one outcome.

You may have something very similar in your business. For example, I gave somebody who may be a fitness coach that made the outcome to run 10 kilometer run in however long that would take. You know, it might be in 45 minutes, for example. That might be the outcome they’re working for. You might be able to say, you know what, I’m going to work you to this point to get you so that you can do a five-kilometer run in 30 minutes and we’re going to be working on that. This is the outcome. This is about how long it should take and these are the steps. That might be one of those things that they’ve got as you’re going along. So that’s a couple of examples. So you can decide whether your offer, whether you’re going to be giving them the full outcome or whether you’re going to take one part.

But you can’t possibly do that unless you are very clear on who it is that you can help, what their point A is, what their point B is, what the different stops are along the way, where they are going to be having hurdles, the points that they need to be able to meet that they need your help. So you need to do that.

You need to know the process you take people through, so that if you can do that, it’s going to be exceptionally easy for you to be able to create a higher price to offer and to be able to sell it with absolute confidence. It will be irresistible if you know that you’re missing any of those points along the way. Come to me. That’s what I do. It’s what I love doing. It’s my superpower getting you a real clarity on that stuff.

If that’s what you need some help with, just contact me and I can tell me about your business and I will let you know the best way that I’ve got to help you to get there. Let me give you a couple of examples on the kind of offer five different ways of offers, different types that you can be creating.

The first thing that I want to be able to say to you is you may very well have heard a lot about an ascension program, which is when people will join your mailing lists. So that’s when you’re getting them to get to know you and then you will offer them a lower price program. If they buy that, you’ll buy them the next program and then you keep on sending them. I’m just telling you here, that’s not going to work for your VIP clients.

There is always going to be a percentage of people that are not the slightest bit interested in consuming the lower priced programs. They don’t want the self study, they don’t want to have the step-by-step, they don’t want the slow path. Ain’t nobody got time for that. People who are more likely to buy the higher price program, they just want to know what’s the fastest way for me to get there. Don’t make them work hard for it. Let them itself qualify.

Let them say, look, if you’re meeting these criteria and you want the fastest result, the least stressful result, this is the best way you can work with me. Just let them know straight up. Okay. Don’t make them work hard for it. Cause in my experience, the people who tend to work with you at that higher level may very well not have purchased any of your other cheaper programs to start with.

In fact, they may have only just recently joined your mailing list. They may have been watching you, what you’ve been putting out there on social media or they may have been referred to you or they may just be ready and what you have delivered to them through your free content to start with just makes them go, this person is the one that I want to work with. So don’t make them work hard for it. Don’t force them to jump through hoops.

Now, let’s look at five different types of offers that you can be creating.I’ll start off with the ones that you can be creating if your business does not have a huge mailing list and if, you don’t have a lot of intellectual property created, you don’t have resources such as checklists, videos, things that could be part of a course if you don’t have any of that yet. Let’s look at what you can be doing.

So the very first thing that you can be doing is package up you. Now you may very well be offering when people work with you on an hourly rate or on a session, this is especially true if you are a service provider where you know, people come to you for your expertise and you may be working with them a certain number of sessions.

It may also work for you. If you are an adviser, you may be doing that on a session right now. When I was saying this, I don’t want you to bundle together a certain number of hours, or a certain number of sessions for you to be able to offer a VIP level. You must link it to the outcome. So your focus is very much on the outcome that they will get and what process you’ve got to get them there.

So that may include a certain amount of time with you, but you know that on those times you’ll be helping them with specific steps to get there. So you can be creating some extra resources as you go. You might create as you’re going some short videos or short audios to help them to stay on track.

You may give them some worksheets that you create. These are all things that you’re creating. You don’t have to have them all done before. It’s still bundling you but not on an hourly rate. It’s bundling on the outcome. You can do that now if you know that you can get results for people.

If you’re pretty sure you can get results, but you haven’t really tested it, then that particular outcome you will be offering as a beater program. It may be slightly cheaper than what you were doing, but you’re letting people know that they are founders and that they, that you would like their feedback throughout the whole process in things that are gonna help them to be able to get those results.

I’m not saying do this for free or low priced because you want the right people in that program. Now, the next thing that we have is I’m just having a look over here at my list as you can be taking the same kind of thing and instead of you be doing it with people where it might be spread out over a few weeks or over a few months, you might go, you know what, you want to get this whole thing nailed in a day. Let’s have a VIP day.

So again, outcome focused, they are going to be working towards a specific outcome on that day. It could be clarity on something that they need to do. For example, you and I, we could have a VIP day where we nail your signature system, your offers and what is going to be your 90 day plan for how you’re going to beat marketing that, to get that out there. That could be an example of a VIP day.

I’ve had VIP days where what we do is we get super duper clear on who your most profitable Avatar is and what your offers are going to be for each of those. I’ve run VIP days like that. Very, very distinct outcomes that you’re getting people, the kind of thing that you can work intensively for one day or you might make it two days and people will pay for that because they’re thinking “I haven’t got time to wait for this. Let’s just knock it over. Let’s get that done.” So that can be a great example.

You can be offering that now even if you don’t have a list. So on how you actually get the people who were going to go in there, that’s, you know, that’s out of the scope of today’s podcast. But just know that you already have a network.

You’re going to have to put yourself out there, out of your comfort zone, you’re going to have to follow the hustle method. This is number one, just over an extended time and it’s packaging you and the outcome. The next one, let’s condense it into a VIP day. And just as an aside, if you’re having a VIP day with people and you’re doing it in person, spoil them rotten, choose a really beautiful venue, make it private, gourmet food. You know, you might even, especially if you’ve been doing mindset stuff, you might even want to make it that there’s a message that they get at the end of the day. Really, really spoil them. You’re going to be making it. They’re going to be paying for that. It’s all coming as part of your expenses, but make the day feel like a VIP.

You can do the same thing if it is going to be virtual. You can be sending them a package that’s got all the spoil things for them to be able to create this beautiful environment while you’re working virtually with them. Just through zoom, through recording.

Now the next one that you can be doing is if you have a service where you can actually be doing the work, creating what it is that people need. You can be creating a done for you now, a done for you can be that you may normally, it may not even have to be done for may not even have to be done for you by you.

For example, if I wanted to, I might go, all right, I’m going to be doing this where I’m going to be helping you to be able to plan out your whole online course.

Well, I could do a dung for you where we can say, “All right! well, we’re actually going to create the members area. We’ll add all your material in and I’m going to get a great copywriter to do the sales letter. I’m going to get a videographer that’s going to come in and they’re going to be videoing you and we’ll get all of your message. Put the whole lot of it for you together.”

That’s a pretty high-priced offer that I’ve just created there. You know, that can easily be 20, 30 grand. I’m bringing all those people in. I’m not going to be doing all that work. I’m the strategist. Probably, even more actually if I brought all of those different people in. But some people are going to go, well I’m going to have to do this anyway. Can you just do it all for me? That is an example.

Another example is my personal trainer who has me working on this macro diet of certain number of grams of fat, protein and carbohydrates cause I’m losing weight beginning strong at the same time. If she had an offer where she would actually every week work out exactly my meal plan on the foods that I love and what was in season for that particular week and what I had coming up that week and I knew it was going to fit exactly those grams, I would pay for that. That’s just example. So that’s say done for you.

Now, the next one that we’ve got is we’re going to be moving over now, and this is if you have an audience of people where you know that if you make the no brainer offer that you will be able to bring a few people in at once. That allows you to really leverage what you’re delivering and to have a high-price program that is has a group component. Now that group component can actually be better for the client because they’ve got other people who they can be bouncing ideas off, they’re not feeling alone as they’re going through the process.

For a lot of things that can actually be a huge advantage, especially if you have curated who was in that group so that people are going, wow, these are great. There’s people who I am here with. So let’s look at two different ways that you can be doing that.

One of those, you can be inviting people into a group program that is delivered over a period of time. An example is my accelerator program where people are meeting every single week on zoom, on video. Every single week they get together with a small group and even if they don’t have a particular issue and question and hot seat at the moment, they learn a lot from the hot seats of the other people because everybody has been interviewed before they go in. And so everybody is working towards a similar goal. Plus they’ve got other things that you can include in there.

We have a special VIP Facebook group where I’m in there every day reviewing things that people have done, answering questions and also lots of training materials so they can fill in the blanks. That’s a done with you. So, it’s a small group, but it’s done with you.

You’re not doing everything for them, but you’re giving them all the steps. They do their part and then your’e reviewing. Your’e giving feedback, making it better, making it faster, and then they also can get some one one with you. And that’s what happens with my accelerator clients. They get some one on one with me, so I’m looking right on their business as well. That’s something that if you already have an audience that you can launch that now.

The next one that you could be doing is if you had that group program. Instead of you doing it over a long period of time, let’s modify the VIP and make it into a small group workshop or a small group retreat and by small group, that’s really going to depend on what’s going to help you to get the transformational promise, the outcome for them in the shortest amount of time. You’ve only got one day or two days to do that.

So if you have a larger group, how can you do that? You may have to bring in many years or you might just keep them smaller groups. When the actual number is really gonna be dependent on you and the process you take people through. So that is the kind of one that you can be offering as well. I’ve done something very similar where I had very, very small group, a two day workshop in a Beautiful Boutique Hotel where we just worked on creating videos and people going home with them, videos created and their marketing plan done and that that sold exceptionally easily. We didn’t even have to do that through phone calls. We just did that off a sales page for 3000 each.

No, what I suggest you do now is go and get the downloadable worksheet that I’ve got for you. I guide you through the process step-by- step on these big core questions that you need to get in place.

So as a review, your high-end offer is going to be something that is tied to a very distinct transformational promise and outcome that you can get them in and you have a process to get them there. It may be the complete outcome or it may be one part of what they’re doing or one of the milestones along the way. So to do that, you need to be exceptionally clear on what the point is and the point B and who it is that you can help to get from point A to point B.

What is the transformation that if you get the right person, you know you can get it for them? That’s your profitable avatar and what are the actual milestone steps along that way that they really are going to need help to actually get those little milestone steps.

If you know those, then it’s going to be very easy for you to create an offer that is going to appeal to those people that want to get that transformational promise, that outcome, they want to get that in the fastest way, the least stressful way, the less time consuming way for them.

If you can help them to do that, that’s what people will pay for and gladly, because it’s their total wish-list. So I’ve got that, that worksheet there for you to help you to get clarity on that. So then you will have confidence that you know what I can deliver here.

If you’re having trouble thinking “I’m not clear myself on my avatar. I’m not really clear on what is my transformational process that I take people through. What is my framework and what is it that makes me stand out”. If you need any help with that, that’s me baby.

That’s exactly the transformational outcomes that I can get for you and love every step of it. And then we’ll be able to create a suite of offers that are beautiful to sell and again, to help people. So if you’d like some help with that get the worksheet, go and download it and then just contact me. Let me know what it is that you’re trying to achieve. Tell me a little bit about your business and we’ll either hop on the phone or I will let you know of what kind of program, what’s the best way that I’ve got to help you. That’s my super power baby. It’s what I love doing and I’d love to help you as well.

I’d really also love to hear from you. Has this helped you today? Like, what’s, what’s been an Aha for you? Which of those five different types of offers are you sort of leaning towards now? Like what feels right for you? I would really, really love to hear from you on that one.

So, please either comment where ever you are here, if you are watching this on iTunes or another podcast, I would really appreciate if you would leave a comment for me, some kind of feedback cause that’s going to help other people to be able to find me. If you leave a rating and a comment, I would love to do that. So it could be on this episode sharing your heart, our house, or even just the whole podcast. I’d really appreciate that. Okay. Looking forward to hearing from you and go get them folks. Bye!

Decision Guide. Should You Use Facebook or Google Ads for Your Type of Business?

Decision Guide. Should You Use Facebook or Google Ads for Your Type of Business?

Once you have your website published, a product or service to sell and you’re open for business then the thing you will become obsessed with is “Traffic”. The problem is, there are so many ways to attract potential customers to your site that it becomes incredibly overwhelming.

There’s social media, webinars, launches, podcast hosting or guesting, joint ventures, live video, door knocking, youtube etc. Then there’s paid advertising and that opens a whole new can of worms, when the choices include Google ads, Facebook ads, Youtube, Linked In, plus a gazillion of other paid platforms specific to individual industries.

It is tempting to think you need to use all of these (don’t do it if you want to stay sane).

If you’re wise and know you’re best to focus on mastering just a few platforms, then you need to know which platform is best for YOUR business specifically, and which ones you are best to ignore.

To answer the question, I’ve brought in expert Ilana Wechsler to simplify the decision for you.

She guides us through a beautifully clear and simply process to decide if you should use Facebook or Google ads for your type of business. Or if you need to be using a combination…or not at all!

If you’ve ever felt you are wasting your money on ads, or have been too scared to start running Google or Facebook ads because you’re worried you will lose a lot of money, then today’s episode is for you.

In this episode we discuss:

  • The gap in the market Ilana saw that motivated her to reduce her Paid Traffic Agency and open Learn Traffic
  • Why most business owners spend money on the WRONG platform for paid advertising – for their specific business
  • The big picture, who should use Google and who should use Facebook to advertise
  • The clever (and cheaper) way to combine Google and Facebook ads that very few people do
  • How to select your audience to see your ads and mistakes most people make
  • What types of ads work NOW and what NOT to promote ( because it doesn’t work)
  • Ilana’s recommended strategy for 2 very different businesses:
    1.) A health professional with a busy local clinic and now has an online course to promote worldwide
    2.) A coach who specialises in helping women over 50 create a vibrant life.
  • The importance of your website and funnel in determining your best strategy for paid traffic.
  • What you need to do THIS week, even if you don’t intend to run paid ads in the near future.

Ilana has also provided free training for you to get started using Facebook and Google Ads, in her simplified structure plus videos to show you how to add both Google and Facebook pixel codes to your own website THIS WEEK. Links are below.


Plus a special podcast bonus for you today. A bonus flow chart cheat sheet to download “Decision Guide: When To Use Google or Facebook Ads In Your Type Of Business”.


You can check out the brilliant free training Ilana has created to get started using Facebook and Google ads strategically in your business.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

Click the image below to download the BONUS worksheet!

Ilana’s Bio

Ilana Wechsler is the founder and director of Green Arrow Digital.

She is a former Data Analyst, turned PPC expert.

She has worked at many of the global financial institutions but switched careers many years ago when she finally gave
in to her passion for PPC, IT and entrepreneurship.

She is truly passionate about working closely with her clients and helping them achieve their business goals by helping them grow their businesses online.

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d love for you to take a quick minute to share your thoughts with us and leave an honest review and rating for the show over on iTunes!

Read The Transcript Here

Janet Beckers:                  Hello and welcome everybody. Janet Beckers here and I am here with the gorgeous Ilana Wechsler. Hi Ilana.

Ilana Wechsler:                Hi Janet. Thanks so much for having me today.

Janet Beckers:                  Now I’ve invited Ilana along because I mean we’ve, we’ve known each other for quite a few years now, but it’s always been, we’ll see each other at events is the main way we’ve really got to know each other. So it might be like a little reunion, you know, once or twice a year. And then, you know, you know, we don’t have this, you know, we’re not seeing each other so much in between, but a lot of times it’s Ilana’s the one that’s up there on the stage sharing her expertise and that expertise is on around traffic. Like that thing that we’re all, you know, just, it’s, it’s the holy grail, you know, once you have everything set up on line, your obsession becomes traffic. Like, how do I do Facebook ads, Google ads, how do I get people to find me? And the thing that I’ve always noticed about you, Ilana is every time that I have seen you teach where you’ve been, the person who’s been invited along, you’re not always telling exactly the same thing, you’re really up to date on what is working now, but really importantly simplify things so much. So that’s everybody. That’s why I have invited Ilana along because not only does she keep up to date, she knows this stuff, but she just makes it simple. Which I just absolutely adore. So, I’m really excited now that I finally get to introduce Ilana two years. Get ready to take notes, okay? So Ilana, we should, we should mention why you will very likely be looking at out of the window a few times for people who are watching the video. I just noticed you did a quick flick out the window then. So just let people know why you may be flicking your head out to look out the window every few minutes through this video.

Ilana Wechsler:                Well, the truth is is that my kids hounded me and hounded me to get a dog. And so I have a brand new puppy and it’s quiet and I don’t trust quiet. I don’t know where this puppy is and what mischief she’s getting up to, but she also can’t be left alone. So, that’s why I may appear a little bit distracted, but don’t worry. I’m a mom. I’m used to multitasking and, she’s probably getting up to no good somewhere, but we’ll see what, what the damage is after we stop recording this.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, that’s funny. And you know what, that is one of the things that we were talking about, just briefly before we got on is, you know what the thing is, we both run our businesses from our homes. My kids were a lot older now, but I’ve been exactly where you are now, like with young kids and also with the new puppy. But you know what, that’s, I think that’s the law. There’s those, those pros and cons as the reality of you work from home, it gives you that flexibility to have a puppy.

Ilana Wechsler:                That’s right.

Janet Beckers:                  But it’s also the reality that, you know, if we, if you pull your blind behind, you know, from behind you, you know, your, your backdrop, people will see, oh there’s definitely a puppy.

Ilana Wechsler:                There are puppy pads everywhere, bows and blankets covering a brand new lounge, which was really clever of me in a brand new lounge. Yeah. Before getting a puppy.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, of course. Yeah. Good planning. And you know, and I’ve quite often on an interview I’ll be, have to say, just hang on a tick and I’ll have to open the door to let my dog in or out cause it’s with friends. So yeah, it’s some, if it’s not dogs, it’s, it’s kids. So it’s just really nice to be real. So you can see not only is Ilana a true expert at what she does, she gets results for clients, but she’s also a human that she’s got a little dog that she is going to keep looking at that window’s so let’s look at what we’re going to be covering today because you’ve got a bit of a different take when it comes to things like Facebook ads, Google ads. Any of that sort of traffic. So let’s first of all have a look at who would you say you help and how you do it. Cause I want people to see why you actually know what you’re doing and then we’re going to have a look at what’s your approach. Because I know that we’re going to be approaching this differently then most times when people think we’re going to talk about things like Facebook ads. So first of all, who do you help? Like what do you do?

Ilana Wechsler:                Okay, so for the last seven years, actually I have run a digital agency specializing in only paid traffic, Google ads, Facebook ads, etc. Right? So I was very much in the trenches. I did it actually just purely because I love, I fell in love with traffic and I just thought to hell with everything else. I don’t want to do SEO, I don’t want to do web design, I don’t want to be a full service agency. I just want to do traffic because I don’t know, I just kind of became fascinated and a bit obsessed about it. So I thought that’s what I’m going to do. And I’ve done it for the last seven years and I’ve learned a lot. I’ve done so many different industries, I’ve done so many different products and services and funnels. I’ve kind of seen trends of what works and what really doesn’t work, etc. Yeah.

And now more and more, I’ve kind of moved away from the agency model and gone into teaching people how to do it because it’s not rocket science. And what I found is in my agency is that a lot of people, we just did a couple of handful of things, you know, like then they almost like didn’t need an agency. Right. You know, and it was like kind of like buying a Ferrari to go down and buy the milk from the corner store or they only really needed a bike, you know, for example, like a dentist, right. You don’t really need an agency to do that. So, they just needed a handful of campaigns knowing what works and then that’s all they really needed to know. So I now really just do that, teach you people. They kind of have access to me, with the strategy and I kind of sit them on their path and then I teach them how to do exactly that throughout teach traffic.com which is kind of the new home for me.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah. And I love that you’ve had that approach of, you know what, sometimes if you know someone, sometimes with an agency, people will, you know, try to overcomplicate things because that makes you dependent on the agency. Or because I just get excited with making it complicated. Right. I just love your idea of, you know what, I think I can kind of do myself out of the agency job because let’s just be honest with what people really do need. So I think that says a lot about you that it’s, that you’re actually going, well, this is actually better for the client. And obviously something that you enjoy doing as well.

Ilana Wechsler:                My puppy is telling me she wants to come up. Sorry. You lucky to say yes. Okay. If you’re watching this on audio, you’ve got to come over to the video or she is so gorgeous. Yeah, no, it’s so totally right. I’ve probably completely cannibalize my agency as a result, but that’s fine. And I guess that’s what I found is that like I like to deal with happy people, you know, and you know, I’ve done a lot of people into this huge agency fees and committing them to, it’s a lot of money for lots of businesses. And then reality is that like, it’s just a handful of things that most people need to do. Like sure. There are some clients that, you know what, I’ve got still got one client who we spend about a hundred grand a month on it. They paid an agency 100% you know, but for many local businesses they didn’t. They really don’t.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah. Yeah. That’s brilliant. I love that. So people can go over to teachtraffic.com and you can find a lot of there and get some more info. So now let’s have a look at this unique way that we’re going to have a look at understanding about using paid advertising and how to use, how to get traffic. But we’re going to start more from a holistic point of view. What do you mean by that? So people can understand.

Ilana Wechsler:                Yeah, so I’m a bit of a visual person and I kind of feel like to understand of what if I’m a business owner, I’ve got to think of what’s the roadmap here. Like where do I want to be? If I could wave my magic wand in about three months time – end point and then I can kind of go right, what are the steps that I’m going to get there. You know, businesses, that’s different things you know for. So the first question, I always kind of ask people is depending on what kind of business they’re in like is, is your business something that people are searching for, you know, like is this a known thing where people are actively going to Google and searching for your product or service? Are you an ecommerce, we are selling something that people are searching for or are you like a chiropractor or interested people are searching for that.

And often the starting point for those kinds of businesses is a Google search, you know? So yeah, your end goal is to grow your practice. The first question you ask is, is this something that, as I said, people are searching for, that’s often the best place to start for people because it’s putting like sliding your business card under the nose of someone literally at the instant that they’ve searched for it. It’s an amazing opportunity, you know?

Janet Beckers:                  Right. And so if we’ve got somebody tell me if I’m doing this in the right order, would we talk is where we talk now about you know how they would get the Google search or we would be saying that till the two we’ve gone through them.

Ilana Wechsler:                Well, it’s more like breaking down the strategy so you know, so is this something that people, then we’re going to do that and we kind of, we can talk a little bit about Google search a bit later.

Yeah, sure. If it’s not something that people are searching for, for example, might be a life coach or something that’s typically not really something you’d Google search, I need a life coach, you know? Yeah. Then it becomes how can I put my work out? Who is my target customer and how can I start getting myself in front of that person? You know, kind of cuts starts with like, yeah, who is my target customer and where are they hanging out online? And then how can I get in front of those people? And that’s usually social media. So that’s like the big picture of like what platform am I going to play in a little bit.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, that’s a great distinction because a lot of times people will get really bogged down SEO. I’ve got to do search engine optimization. I’ve got to appear in the search engine. They’ll be focusing on that, but then they’re a life coach and so it gets really, really difficult.

Ilana Wechsler:                Yeah that’s right. So what’s the point in the ranking? That’s brilliant. so at any point though, whatever platform you are playing in, you have to be sending them to your own asset that you own and control, which is your website, right? So whatever, if they’ll just Google and Facebook and Instagram and Pinterest and Linkedin, they’re all just traffic sources, sending people to your home, right? On your home is where you have the ability to control your messaging to people. But it also has the ability where you can continue the conversation with people either by getting them to subscribe to your database or we get a little bit technical, we can retarget them, which is showing ads to people once they’ve come to your website. Right. So all roads lead to your home is what I kind of like to think about it.

Janet Beckers:                  That’s brilliant. So, I can already, I’m kind of visual person as well, so I’m already thinking in terms of a flow chart. Okay. Did people such people not say yes, depending on either of those ones, where are you going to send them? They’ve got to come back to your website.

Ilana Wechsler:                I guess I just want to touch on one more thing with that. And I feel that so many people get overwhelmed with all the things they can do, they can do social media and Instagram and Google and youtube and absolutely. And it’s, and fair enough, there’s a lot of noise in the market. Okay. That’s why I think it’s important about starting with the big picture is like who is my target customer? Who am I serving and where are they hanging out online? And maybe you only spend 80% of your time on that platform. Yeah, that’s still main source. I mean, I’d probably would like to diversify a little bit, but as long as you’re sending those people to your home, that opens up the door of possibilities to other platforms. So we’ve had lots of clients in the past, let’s say a life coach, right?

Where that’s where those people kind of hang out online. And we might spend 80% of the budget doing Facebook ads as our form of getting traffic to our home. But once they come to our home, they sign up to the database. We’ve tagged them on with some, with this tracking code and then we can follow them on Google. And that’s all we do on Google. So it’s like you’ve got, you don’t have to have two legs in equal camp. You can have, you know, half your body in one traffic source and a toe in the other. I’m going to have divided evenly, which is, I find the misconception that people have because it sounds really exciting to do all this stuff, but it comes down to who is your audience and where are they [inaudible]

Janet Beckers:                  That’s excellent. So you’ve mentioned a few different things there. You’ve talked about retargeting, you’ve talked about Google as Facebook ads and you’ve also talked about Google search. So there’s four sort of I guess, implementation strategies that you’ve mentioned there. Okay. I was just saying you’ve gone Ooh, Yup.

Ilana Wechsler:                There’s a Google site is part of Google ads.

Janet Beckers:                  Right. Okay. See, there you go. See, I’m not using Google ads yet. Used to in years ago. But then it stopped being profitable for me, so I stopped. But this is where I really loved it. When I loved your strategies of this 80% of your budgets in your, at your attention going on one platform, but you’re still using something like Google ads, as a way to follow up so that you can kind of stalk the people who even..

Ilana Wechsler:                I like to say continue the conversation, continue the conversation.Yeah.

Janet Beckers:                  Hey, you know what I call stalker. You can always have a conversation. So can we now have a look at a few of those different ways? You’ve, maybe if I give you a couple of scenarios of typical people who I know that are listening that will be with me today. Yeah. And if we, if I throw you a couple of scenarios and go, all right, what would be the best way to be able to use your budget usual time for those scenarios. So okay, if I think of one client that I’ve got at the moment, she has a local business as a service provider, as in health, occupational therapists working with women who’ve had breast cancer. Hi Kate. Now, has a local business and bringing in local people. But we’ve got the business for her now, growing so big that now it’s going to go online. So we’ve also got a program we’ve created online, which is sort of like a once off thing to start with. So if you’ve got somebody like that that’s got an offline business that they’re still wanting to build clients to, but now they’re also starting to develop online programs and that can go into national [Inaudible]. What would be, you know, if you’re thinking about the big picture here, the different ways to make them, keeping it simple, but the best way for that work, what would be your advice?

Ilana Wechsler:                Okay, well I’ve got lots of things running through my head, so be it the OT type work for a specific condition. Yeah. Question in my head is like, if I put myself into that person’s shoes, if I’m recovering from breast cancer, and I’ve got some health related issues as a result of the treatment, which is what I believe it is, is the, is it something that, is there a certain condition that I have? Yeah. Yeah. So that I would be seeking help about it. So, for example, I don’t, I don’t know what would it be.

Janet Beckers:                  That would be lymphedema and swelling in the limbs.

Ilana Wechsler:                Right. Okay. So I might write an article on my website talking about using some helpful information about that and then I might go to Google and say, hey Google, whenever somebody types in swelling, leg swelling treatment, perhaps, I might want to show my ad as to come up as content for that person.

So very, very specific, search queries. You’re not trying to sell to these people just yet. You’re just trying to send them to your helpful article on your website. And at the end of that article you might say, Hey, do you want to get in touch? And whatever. The idea behind that is just to pull out from the weeds, like putting the magnet in the iron filings. You’re exactly your target customer based on what they’re searching for that you can then have the ability to follow up with them after. Now because she’s in health space, Google are pretty strict about the retargeting ads and there are restrictions for certain industries. So she cannot do Google retargeting in that area as a privacy. So what we don’t want is, let’s say I’m searching for some fill out on my on my computer and then somebody else comes on my computer and they suddenly seeing ads for leg swelling as a result. You know, that kind of stuff that google don’t like that.

However you can do it on Facebook, right? So that’s why you want to send them to your home where you can on your home or your website. You can have that Facebook code that go, Hey, somebody’s come here, read this article. What’s the next step for them? Maybe they want to download a pdf, an ebook or something that you can, you can show them on Facebook, but you found them because of what they typed into Google.

Janet Beckers:                  I love it. So if we go back to what you said at the beginning, and you know what I, there’s a lot of people who will be listening to this that are in some kind of health field. And I know that that’s often a frustration that they have is there’s all these restrictions around what I can do. I love, you know, you just knew it. So from what you were saying at the beginning is you’d be doing the Google ads, Google search if they’re typing in something really, really specific.

Ilana Wechsler:                So let me give you an example of how is it pretty much exactly like, but another example of how that worked. Well, so I had a client come to me that had a membership website for a specific subject of teacher. So they weren’t all teachers. Yeah. Teachers of a certain subject in America. Right? Right. So, when you target on Google, you can target by, I mean on Facebook by job title, but that was it. So we could target teachers, but we wanted a specific subject of teacher. So it was a very, so what we thought, well hang on a minute. What we can do is we know what these teachers do of this subject, right? We know the curriculum, right? And weeks one and two, they are teaching something in the curriculum. So they are going to Google and typing in insert topic, one of the curriculum quizzes, tutorials, printables, all that kind of stuff, right? No one is bidding on that. Like literally we paid like 5 cents a click. I’m not joking and pull them out from the weeds and then we read and that’s how we found them. We just, and we gave them the information that they wanted, we gave them a free worksheet, right? Tagged them obviously with the tracking codes and then followed up on Facebook to say, Hey, we’ve got all this stuff available in the membership, blah blah blah, blah blah, and, and made sales that way.

Janet Beckers:                  That’s fantastic. So I think an important thing for people to understand here is you’ve talked about tracking code. So just know, don’t get bogged down with any of the techie stuff that when you do Facebook ads and when you do Google ads, you get a little bit of code that you put on your website and that allows you to be able to find those people. I like how you said here. So when we talked about like your, you know, you’ve got most of you in one camp and then your foot in the other in this case, because they’ve got very specific things you’ve searched on. You’ve got your body over in the, in the Google camp, but you’ve got your foot following them up in the Facebook camp. Correct. So if I can give you another example of a really typical person who I work with, and so I’ll think of, you know, just, some that I’ve got here at the moment that people who I’m working with.

Janet Beckers:                  And that could be somebody where it’s unlikely that people will search the specific thing. And a typical one are women who are over 50 who have kids that have left home. They’re now thinking, you know what? I want a better life than this. I want some choices. I want to find myself. I want to know what my goals are. I just want to, it’s, I’m all about me now rather than everybody else. And these are people who really help people to specialize in finding out what that passion is and helping them to get there. So that’s kind of, you know, as life coaching, it’s goals coaching, in some cases it can be start up business coaching. So then not necessarily the sort of things, you know, most people are going to type in, you know, how to be happy after 50, no, whatever. So in that case, what would you recommend for them in that hole? You know, how to make the most of the, you know the different camps that you can be using.

Ilana Wechsler:                Yeah. So it comes back to that first question of who is my target audience and where are they hanging out online. Right? So you said, who’s my target audience? A women who’s over 50. That’s easy. Where are they hanging out? I don’t know. I reckon Facebook and Instagram personally. Yeah. So, then it’s like, well, what, who are, who are they more as a person? Like who, who interests them, who do they listen to? Who Inspires them? Brene Brown would be a probably a classic example. Excellent. Yeah. So all those kinds of, if you’re trying to build the Customer Avatar, the big picture of the person, what books do they read? What authors do they like, who are their thought leaders? And then obviously you can find them on social media through Facebook’s pretty superior targeting. Then the question is, well, what are you going to show these people?

You know, like you can find them. Finding them is actually the easy part. The hard part is what do you say to these people and what are you going to show them? You know, and I find these days it’s all about building a relationship with people. OK. Through, I think through content I’m in. Podcasting is an amazing mediums are, the idea is that you find them on social media, you pull them out from the weeds, like the I’m filing thing concept, but you might show them some content of a podcast episode that you’ve done it and you can turn it into a video. You might want want to give away some kind of content to these people. I find on social media it’s very, you’ve got to build a relationship with people. The biggest mistake that people make is that they just go straight for that sale with paypal, Book a Free Strategy Session, a.k.a Code for a sales call.

You know, like they just go straight for the sale. But you just can’t do that on social these days. You’ve got to build a relationship, you’ve got to give before you can ask for the take. And if you build that relationship through education and content and that kind of stuff, the take will come later, you know? So it’s just, yeah.

Janet Beckers:                  And so with that, just building on that, you know, giving what’s your take on how, how soon in that process should the giving be come to my website, I’ve got a Freebie. So should it be, should a lot of your stuff to start with building up that be things that are actually on Facebook itself, like videos and posts or is it okay for you to be able to go, here’s a Freebie, come over here.

Ilana Wechsler:                Look, I think, yeah you’re still giving, you know, like there’s nothing wrong with here, come over here and grab your Freebie. You know, and I do this all the time. I all, one thing you might do is you go, I’m running a free Webinar. We’re going to cover the 10 things. Here’s the first one for free. Like I think these days, I don’t know, maybe I might, people might disagree with me. I think people value their time more than their money these days. Time. Yeah. So valuable and you’ve got to earn my time. If, if, if I’m going to sit on an hour long Webinar with you, I’ve got to know that I’m going to get some results, but I don’t want to listen to 30 minutes of fluff. Like I literally don’t have the time. And I think people are the same. Like there’s messages that are constantly coming at us all the time and people are very, very precious as they should be with their time. So you’ve got to earn that time. You got to earn that trust with people. So often I like to give away something in the ad itself or in the content itself that they don’t have to give me their name and email address for to earn that trust and go, Hey, do you want the rest?

Janet Beckers:                  Excellent. That is such a great distinction and it makes it easy for people because that’s a question I get a lot. And I guess a lot of times the answer is all of the above. You know, where should I, should I be doing a video with seeing the posts? Should I be just sending it to my website for content? Should I be getting them onto the Freebie? But I love what you said there, that even if you’re getting people over to a Webinar or for a Freebie is give content actually in the post, in the video, in the ad. That’s right. A lovely way of combining the whole lot. And just also on that one there, cause we’re talking about, you know, your body in one care your toes in the other. Yep. So if you’ve got somebody there that’s in the example we’ve talked about a life coach who is helping women who are over 50. So if we’ve, we’re doing those ones, they get them using the iron filings through using Facebook ads to be using Google ads there as well with them at any case at any time.

Ilana Wechsler:                Yeah, it would be a function of what you’re going to show them next, you know, so say I am a woman, or a lady over 50 and I’ve gone to that life coaches website, what’s the next step for me to take? You know, like it depends on what that process is that I think personally, I don’t know if I’d be following them up on Google unless it’s something that’s pretty irresistible, right? I mean, unless it, or you may be, I want to promote the next piece of content or something, but it’s the kind of thing I guess. Yeah, it’s a tough one. You’d probably have to, I’d probably have to see th kind of what that funnel is for people. Like, I wouldn’t want to buy the Google ads. Hey, just jump on a call. That kind of feels a little bit too forceful. Yeah. the answer is it depends. All right. Yeah.

Janet Beckers:                  And I love that. I mean, that’s really honest to because a lot of times people are looking for the black and white answer. It’s not black or white and it’s never black and white. So, and that also then, this is a really nice wrap up that one of the first things that you mentioned is everything that you’re doing here has to come back to what you’ve got on your website and on your website. That’s where it becomes important about your messaging, what it is that you’re going to be doing to get them onto your list. What are you going to be following them up with next? And so what you’ve got in that funnel, what you’ve got as your steps is really going to dictate if it’s going to make sense to do a follow up using this or not.

Ilana Wechsler:                What I will say on that though is kind of like what I do right? Where people come to my website and it might not be ready to learn, you know, they’re not ready to take the step and go, yeah, I’ve actually got the time in a couple of months, I’m going to have time and I’m going to sit down and actually learn this stuff. And I’m not quite ready yet, you know, so I don’t run my retargeting ads all the time. Actually. I have my pixels on my website that are gathering people and when I am launching something or when I’m running something, I might turn on my Google ads to access those past visitors and like turn them on for a week and then I’ll turn them off. It doesn’t have to be something that I’m continually running. I mean, you can, you know, but, so for that kind of business, they might find if they’ve got some kind of launch coming up, they’ve got that invisible email list, which is what your retargeting list is ready and prime to go through when they’ve just been sending content to people. Like, you know, promoting contents, show that to people for a limited time. And then they turn it off.

Janet Beckers:                  I love it. That is brilliant. So we might actually wrap it up there because I think what you’ve just given here is this beautiful simple structure. And the next thing is, so if I just do just a little bit of a wrap up for people who’ve been listening are aware that there are going to be some people here who understand about paid advertising, the whole idea of retargeting and pixels and other people that will go, whaaat? So if you’re in the whaaat sort of section, don’t worry. Just know that when you do dive in and decided to do any kind of advertising that’s Kinda like, you know, one-on-one you know that you’ll have a piece of code that you put on your site and it, and it allows you to continue the conversation or thought people are though when they’re searching on Google or on Facebook. So if we come back to people who are listening now, I want to give you some action steps. So if we think about just the overall structure of people searching specifically for things, or how’d they searching. So then you’ve got that extra challenge. So if they’re searching, start off on Google. If they’re not, we’re going to start over on Facebook. And then whether or not you’re following them up, the retargeting conversationally, stalking them, you know, is going to be really depending on what’s happening with your funnel, what the next steps are. They’re really lovely decision points for you to be able to make. And so if we’ve got people here now who are listening and going, right, what am I going to do? So for people to take an action step this week, what would be the main thing that you would recommend them to do this week? So that they have got the right strategy that’s gonna work for them.

Ilana Wechsler:                Okay. I would really recommend, and you’re probably not gonna like this answer, Janet. I’m sorry. But I would, I would, I really recommend people, even if you’re not going to do ads for six months, like you’re not at that point, I really always urge people to install these pixel codes on your website. Now it’s, I’m going to show my age here, but uh, so you won’t mind where I kind use the analogy of the old school type recorders. When you press record, right it, that’s kind of the same thing where in putting the pixel codes on your website now, even if you’re not showing any ads, it’s pressing record on your people coming to your website. So that when and/if you are ready to start running as you’ve got that beautiful list of your past website visitors. So Facebook will remember, it’s pretty crazy. People who’ve come to your website in the last 180 days. Excellent. Google Pixel remembers people for 540 days. Whoa.

Janet Beckers:                  They go. So even if you don’t even get around to it for every year, you’ve got your pixel. And so, and if people are thinking, well, how do I do that? There’s this fantastic tool called Google. Just Google. How do I get my Google Pixel and my Facebook Pixel on website? I’ve got training on that. We can put a link in the show notes if you want. I’ll show you how to get it, put it on your website and then you can just sit and forget. It’s done when and if you’re ready, you’ve got that beautiful imaginary email list ready to go.

That is perfect. Well we will do that. We will that would be brilliant. If you have the links to that, we’ll put that there on the webpage. If you are here on, if you’re listening to us on iTunes, come over to the podcast page because you’ll see the links to be able to get that training. You’ll also see the show notes that we’ve got from today and you will also see I’ll put together a quick cheat sheet for you that just summarizes that overall picture for you. So you can have like a decision matrix, a really simple one for you to be able to download and use now. And then if people go over to teachtraffic.com, is that a great place for them to get more training from you as well? That is the best place to go. Yes. Yeah. Brilliant.

And so everybody please, you know, if you’ve taken action on today, you know, let us know because that’s one of the greatest rewards that we can have. So go over to, teachtraffic and, and, and let a lot of know what action you’ve taken. Oh, look, it’s so rewarding for us. So please give us that feedback. If you’re on iTunes, I’d really appreciate if you would leave an honest review and that could include what action that you’ve taken or your biggest takeaway that would be done. That’s a gift back to us. I would really, really appreciate that. So, thank you so much for your time today, Ilana, and thank you everybody that is taking action. They did go get them.

Ilana Wechsler:                Alright. Thank you so much for having me down and had a blast.

Janet Beckers:                  Okay. Bye, bye.

The 5 Characteristics My Most Successful Clients Have in Common

The 5 Characteristics My Most Successful Clients Have in Common

Over the years of working with thousands of business owners, and hundreds of those on a close level, I’ve noticed distinct characteristics of the people who get the fastest and long-lasting growth in their businesses. Plus the path to this success is smoother, with less drama and greater confidence.

Last week I interviewed Emma Franklin Bell, a brilliant woman who has been part of my Attract Your Tribe Accelerator program for the past 6 months. Before giving great guidance on the 5 Connector Styles of Content Marketers, Emma and I dived into the mindset of what it takes to be the person that really stands out and builds a business that positions them as the leader in their field. We broke those down and then showed you how to adopt those characteristics into your own business practice so you have the discipline to consistency create great content that builds on the strengths of your connection style.

This week, I give you an action plan of how to build these characteristics into your own life with Your Action Guide To The Disciplined Mindset.

Here’s what you’ll discover today:

  • The 5 characteristics my most successful clients all have in common
  • Action exercises you can do this week to identify areas you have in common PLUS areas you can take an honest reality check on.
  • Action Steps you can take this week to implement changes NOW
  • Personal insights into the actions I’ve taken myself to model the characteristics I admire in my most successful clients.


Plus a special podcast bonus for you today. An action guide to download “The Disciplined Content Marketer’s Mindset Action Guide”. You can read below for the guide here on this page, or download the PDF worksheet version to fill out and take action on.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

Click the image below to download the BONUS worksheet!

Your Action Guide to The Disciplined Mindset

These are the characteristics my most successful clients all have in common.

They Have a History Of Disciplined Mastery in a sport, creative interest and in business or study

My most successful clients have usually had a history of excellence in one of these pursuits, very often a sport. Now this does not mean they are professional athletes. It DOES mean they have approached their passion with the focus, discipline and training of a person who intends to be the best THEY can be at this. 

Exercise: List goals you have worked towards, you are proud of, and can say you aimed for excellence.

For example it may be dance, like Emma. It may be running, weight lifting, swimming, a musical instrument, demonstrated excellence in your studies.

Exercise: Be honest with yourself. 

Have you settled for average in the past?

If so, don’t beat yourself up about it.

Write down what things you are passionate about you commit to challenge yourself to continually aim to improve in.

Personal Note: I’m currently focusing on continually improving my running, swimming and strength training. I intend to compete in races, with the aim to improve my personal best. I just want to be strong and full of energy.

They Focus on Personal Best, Not Competition

They are aware of competitors but they don’t compare themselves as much as most other people do. This gives them great resilience.

Instead they aim to incrementally improve on their own performance.

Exercise: Choose 2 things to set incremental goals to improve and monitor your progress.

  1. A business goal (perhaps increasing your content production and quality every week?)
  2. A personal goal (maybe getting up at a certain time each morning, or to walk / run / swim further each week)

Personal Note: I still consider one of my best achievements was strategically and persistently converting my bodyclock from a confirmed night-owl to an early riser. I can now naturally wake up at 5am and go swimming, running, gym or mastermind meeting without crying 🙂 It took me 18 months, a lot of fails, crying when the alarm went off, dust off, persist, improve and then mastery.

They Just Do It

A really common thing I hear my most successful clients say is “I just don’t get why people don’t get on and just do what they know they need to do”.

They seriously just don’t get the self sabotage, not completing, excuses.

If they know they need to do something they ignore the self doubt and just get it done.

This is discipline in action.

Exercise: What are you NOT doing?

What are you procrastinating on or saying you will do and then have an excuse why you haven’t.

Go on, be honest with yourself.

What change do you commit to make this week?

They Don’t Second Guess Their Advisers

My most successful clients take time to choose their advisors and so trust they have made the right decision.

Then they just follow the guidance and take action.

They don’t waste time second guessing, challenging and questioning.

They follow the guidance, then review their results.

Only then do they tweak and adapt things to their own style (see back to personal best).

This is especially true of people who have had a coach to train them in a sport or artistic pursuit. They are used to listening to the coach.

Exercise: Be honest with yourself.

Do you resist help and guidance and ignore advice, especially when it is from someone you have selected to guide you?

What areas do you feel you can improve and reduce your stress levels by just trusting and implementing?

Personal Note: In my quest to improve my strength and aerobic fitness I have contracted a personal trainer. She designs gruelling and challenging workouts and guides me in exactly how to do them correctly. She creates macro food plans and sets me accountability goals every week for cardio. 

Some days I detest her and she laughs at my “Don’t F#*k With Me Face”. But I never second guess, I do as she tells me and my results improve every single week. Wanna feel how strong my arms are?

They Play The Long Game

This means they don’t see failure as a reason to stop.

Instead they step back, look for the lessons, then get straight back into improving and aiming for incremental improvement.

For example, you may choose to focus on video as a content creation media for you to connect with your tribe. It’s very likely your first few videos will totally suck.

You may even be ridiculed or people simply don’t watch!

You can my first video here.

You can see Oprah’s first video here.

Oprah didn’t give up.

I didn’t.

You won’t either baby!

Exercise: What have you given up because of a failure? What lessons can you learn from that?

Personal Note: You may get some insights into what can happen if you DON’T give up. Here is a podcast about what happened when my launch I worked on for months got ZERO sales.

Commit To Action

Exercise: OK so now let’s focus on getting results.

What incremental improvement goals to you commit to do in your business, your content marketing and in your personal life? List them down then take action THIS WEEK. 

Celebrate Your Action

Exercise: When you have completed this worksheet and taken action, contact me and let me know.

You can do that via email, social media or in our free Romance Your Tribe Facebook group.

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d love for you to take a quick minute to share your thoughts with us and leave an honest review and rating for the show over on iTunes!

Read The Transcript Here

Hello and welcome! Janet Beckers here. Well, I’ve got a special podcast episode for you this week because it’s just me teaching and we’re going to be looking at the question that I’m really fascinated with, which is why is it that some people just seem to be able to get results faster and longer lasting, and it seems to be done just so much easier. There’s not as much drama, not as much resistance. Why is it that some people get those sort of results and other people don’t? And yet all of them are incredibly clever. They’re very passionate about the work that they do. They’re very skilled and they may very often be doing exactly the same actions, the same material that they may be working through. So how does that happen? So that’s what I’m going to share with you today because after years now I’ve been coaching and mentoring.

I’ve been in this space now for about 12 years and in fact longer really but 12 years since I really officially launched. And over that time I’ve been really fortunate. Like, I’ve worked really closely, sort of like one on one or in very small group VIP programs with over a hundred people now. And I’ve also worked with thousands that have been in my VIP group programs. And I’ve really got to see that there are some people that they just get the success easy. These are the people that, you know, we’ll get featured in case studies. They’re the great testimonials that show huge results that they got. You know, they’re the people that I’ll invite along for me to interview about how they did that. I’m here on my podcast. There’s those people. And so I’ve really come to see that there are certain characteristics.

So that’s what I’m going to do today. I’m going to break down those characteristics that I have noticed in the clients that I’ve had over all these years that get those results. Not just that they get them faster, but it’s done with a lot less stress, a lot less drama. It just feels easier for them and for me. And so I’m going to break down what those characteristics are. And importantly, I’m also going to show you how you can model them. So we kind of have a look at what are some really practical things that you can be doing today to start embodying some of these characteristics that really can help predetermine if you’re going to be successful or not. And I’m also gonna share with you how I’ve learned from my clients. You know, they will come to me because you know, that we’ll be learning a lot from me from my experience and the, the, the mentoring that I can give them on building their businesses online.

But also they will be modeling a lot of the characteristics that I share. You know, that’s helped me to be able to get to this stage, but it works both ways because I get to work with really clever people, like amazing people. And when I look at the people who are really getting the results, I think, well, how do I bottle up the essence of them and how do I actually bring that so that into my own life? So I’m doing exactly the same as I’m going to be helping you to do today is looking at what they’re doing and seeing what can I do to actually bring more of that into the way I do business and I’ve kind of reverse engineered how you can do the same. Now to help you to do this, I’ve also got an action plan for you, a downloadable that you can use that’s going to help you to go through these five characteristics and also to be able to have some exercises that you can be working through.

So the real action steps. So just know that you don’t have to get it all in one go that I’ve got get there for you and it’s going to guide you through those steps. So I am particularly interested to hear from you as you go through this today. I would love to hear from you. Do you recognize that there is some of these characteristics that you’ve, gosh, which is really exciting because double down on what’s working for you and, and also really interested to know are there any things here that I’ve mentioned that you go, well, if I’m really, really honest, I’m not doing that. Or the results are showing me that I’m not doing it and that’s good. That’s okay because these are areas that if you’re going to be really focusing on improving anything, these five areas, if you just focus on improving these when it comes to the way that you conduct a business, not what you’re doing, but the way that you conduct business, double down on these five, those ones that you’re, that you’re struggling with, that a challenge, you know, use these steps that I’ve got for you because it can make a huge difference for you.

So I really want to hear from you both ways. What are the ones where you’re going? Yeah, I’m doing that. I’m going to not really double down. Or the ones where you go up, there’s a bit of a red flag for me. This is what I’m going to commit to actually start working on. I really love to hear from you. So either drop me an email, a message, leave a comment here on the podcast page. If you are listening to the podcast over on iTunes, I would really appreciate if you would help other people find this. And the best way you can do that is to little comment and a ranking. So I’d really appreciate that and you can even comment on this particular episode. Very free to do that. All right, so let’s get stuck into it and make sure that go and download that action sheet that I’ve got for you because I’ve it’s really gonna help things to move along faster for you.

Now, if you’re watching this here on the on the video, on the podcast page or Sydney every now and then looking down, that’s because I’m using my notes. I’m actually referring to the action sheet that I’ve got for you and I’m picking out some of those points here, knowing that you can go into more detail. Okay. And I also have an article for you on this page so you can see things at a glance as well. Alright, well let’s get stuck into it. So these are the five characteristics of the clients that I have worked with over the last decade that they all have in common. The ones that create the success with the most ease and in the, in the fastest time. So let’s have a look at that now. Number one as and this is a really interesting when I’ve really just come to notice this, I noticed it with a, with one client to start with.

And Tiffany, hey tiff, where we live, and I actually discussed this where I was saying that the things that was just making it so easy to get results with her is because she was an athlete. And because of that she had these certain characteristics that all athletes actually have to embody in order to get the results in their sport. So this is number one. Now you may have that you have a particular sport that you have not just gone, you know what, I’m going to play this for fun, where you’ve actually gone, you know what, I’m going to do what it takes to be the best that I can be at this notice I said the best that I can be. So it may be in tifs example, it was tennis and then it was golf in other people that I’ve worked with. It may be that they’re into surfing, but they approach it in a way that, you know, they want to be the best that they can be.

So there are always constantly improving at what they do. It may be running, they may be a person who goes in running races and sets themselves that bar to do better and better and better or swimming. It could be any sport. And now the other thing it could also be, is a creative pursuit, which may be say dance or it may be a musical instruments learning a musical instrument. Some other sort of art that you may be doing. The difference here is that it’s not just I’m going to you know, like me paint, I’m going to paint because it gives me joy. I haven’t necessarily gone down the track of going, you know what I am going to end up, you know, exhibiting in the wind prize or whatever. It’s not the thing that I really want to invest that time, but I’m going to share with you later some of the things that I have been approaching these particular characteristics in.

So now you may also have sometimes it may also be in business. Now the thing that I have found though with the people who are the most successful is they’re not only showing that discipline and drive and a real sense of wanting to get mastery in one particular thing and do it really, really well. They very often, if they have it in business, they also have it in something that is in their personal life. And it’s usually required that they have to have incredible discipline because they’ve got to get up and keep on going to training. They’ve got to get a coach and they understand what it means to work with a coach and just do as they’re told, they will not do as they’re told. But listen to the coach and, and trust that if I do this, it’s going to work.

They’ve had to fail numerous times. So usually I haven’t just really, really noticed that. So I quite often ask people is their tough time when you have set yourself a specific goal and you have really, really worked towards it. And it took an amazing amount of discipline. For example, I’ve got a couple of clients that may say to me, you know what? I wouldn’t say that I necessarily have a sport, but when when we’ve talked further, they set themselves a goal of doing a bodybuilding competition. I’ve had a few that have done that. And once they did it, that was okay. It wasn’t their big passion, but they set that goal. So ask yourself, this is the tough question, how, how often have you settled for mediocrity settled to be average? And when in your life have you challenged yourself to be the absolute best that you can beat, to have mastery mastery of something that takes discipline, that takes a learning, something that new and keep on learning and learning and failing and turning up and keep on doing it until you get really, really good.

Now, I will give you an example of something that I’m working on at the moment because as I said at the beginning, this is something that, you know, I can still remember that first conversation with tiff going, what a work out, what it is. I reckon, what is it that, or a bear’s been around you being an athlete, what have you brought into what you’re doing here with me? And it was really interesting. We started that conversation and then it’s been something that I have continued with a lot of the people who I’ve worked with looking at those things. So I’ll share with you one thing that I am working on now is that I have set myself a goal for this year, is that I’m going to get incredibly strong and fit for me. And I’m going to continually improve on doing that. And I’ll be sharing with you, I’ll use this one as a bit of a theme cause it’s kind of my obsession at the moment.

And as we go through the rest of this, I’ll show you how I’m taking what I’ve learned from my clients and applying it to this particular one. So in that is to do with running and also with getting very, very strong so that I can go and do all those things that I want to be able to doing but be doing it so that I can be going in some running races in some, in some extreme for me, extreme you know obstacle type insurance type competitions with the main reason that I want to be really energetic and healthy, but setting these goals so that I will have a reason to keep on getting better and better and better. So I’ll share those with you as I’m going. But that’s my question to you is I want you to ask yourself that. Is there something that you can this week decide that?

You know what? I’ve always dabbled around with this particular thing, and it doesn’t have to be in business. It could be a personal thing, it could be an act, it could be something physical, creative, whatever it is. Set yourself a goal that you know what? I’m going to approach this for mastery, that I’m going to be doing this as well as I can and continually improve. Continue to be the best that I can be at that. That’s my challenge to you. And then if you’re doing that in other things in your life, it will naturally flow over to what you’re doing in your business. Okay? That’s number one or five. So I’d love to hear from you. So now let’s move over to number two and this row you’ll see that this, you can see how number one is actually here is evidence of having applied the next four activities.

So choosing that one thing can be a really nice litmus test for you of are you actually implementing these other four? So here they are. This one is a really powerful one is the people who I work with that get the best success with the most persistence. The real sort of resilience are the people who they don’t focus on the competitors. They don’t focus on competition. They focus on personal best. Now you may be thinking, Hey, if these are people who’ve really excelled in a particular sport, if they’re athletic, surely that’s competitive. Yes, but they got they’re competing against themselves. Now where this gets really powerful is if you are intending on going for a personal best, you have to be measuring how do you know if you’ve beaten your previous record unless you are actually measuring and the nice part about this as if you are always looking at, did I do better this time than I did last time, then you’re not going to be comparing yourself to everybody else.

If you’re not looking at personal best, it is so easy to look and see what other people are doing and go, oh, why am I even bothering? Look, look how awesome they are. I’m not doing well enough. I’m a failure. What else? I had talked that you’ve got going. If you’re focusing on the competition, that will always happen. But if you’re focusing on your personal best at why it happened, and think about how many times that you may have watched, say the Olympics and you can get somebody that may have won the gold medal and they will go, yeah, I got a gold medal. But how many times do you hear them say hi and I’m really excited. I’ve got a PB, I’ve got a personal best. The gold was awesome, or even the silver or the bronze or whatever. But it was the PB.

That is the thing that they’re focused on. So these are even the people who are winning it at all. They’re focusing on that. Now in order to Mesh two tonight is you’ve got to measure. So for example, if you are doing this in your business, how do you know if you are getting better? So think about the things that are important for you at the moment to measure if might be how many people are on my mailing list? Have I improved? How many people? If I do some videos, how many people are commenting, can I do something that’s going to improve so that I get more comments perhaps when I do Facebook lives, more people viewing, what can I be doing so that if I perhaps do a launch or a Webinar and I’m selling how many people bought they of measure those sorts of things so that you can go, hey, I am improving, I’m getting better.

That’s the big focus because it also makes you resilience. Because if you’re always focusing on getting better, you’ll, you can kind of take the emotion out of a lot of it as well. Now I’ll give you an example. That I can look at here is always looking at your own personal best. So the first thing I want you to set yourself a goal. So that goal could be around your business goal. And also I want you to set yourself a personal goal. It could be something that’s really small. And let me give you an example of one that I did a couple of years ago. And honestly it revolutionized my life by deciding to approach it in the way that my best clients do. And that is I wanted to get fit and healthy. And this is a few years ago. You can see this has been a theme of mine for a while and but I’ve always been a night owl, which has not been a big problem.

But I was finding because on a night our mornings are a write off. I wasn’t exercising in the morning cause I wasn’t getting up early and life got busy. And even though I set the intention to do exercise at night in the afternoon or at lunch time and never happened, I got busy, you know, family came home, blah blah blah. So I realized if I was going to get fit, I was gonna have to get up early and I was gonna have to make friends and go and exercise with them cause that would get me out of bed. So in order to do that, it meant that I had to go to bed by a certain time and I had to get up early. This sound like a minor thing. But the way that I’ve measured mine in terms of personal best is how many times that week did I get up at the time that I said I was and for my swimming buddies, which I’m still doing now, years later, twice a week.

It’s fine. A M for a night person. That was rude. That was a killer. So how many times did I get up straight away? How many times did I hit the snooze button? How many times did I make an excuse to myself and to them about why I couldn’t go? All of those sorts. So that was what I was measuring and also how many times could I get in the car with them cause we carpool to the pool and when they say good morning that I don’t go, you know, when did it become, when did I get to the point where I could actually go? Good morning. So they were the things that I measured now it took me 18 months, but now I can get up at five o’clock quite easily. I can get up even earlier if I need to. If there’s something I need to do I can, you know, and it’s not a drama and I can be in a good mood when I do it.

So that is the result. But if I hadn’t been measuring, if I had only compared myself, you know that, oh, I didn’t do it today. It could, I could’ve given up. So that is an example of one what seems really simple, but it was life changing for me. Thing that came from me applying that strategy of only focusing on the personal best and not on what other people are doing. Okay? Now let’s look at number three. I don’t know if you can hear or there’s a blowy. There’s a fly buzzing around here and I really don’t want to stop videoing in order to do this. So if I get a little dis be distracted, it’s because I’m looking at that. Okay, this is number three. And I tell you what, this sounds simple, but honestly, I reckon out of all of them, this is the one, if you can nail this, it makes all the others so much easier.

And that is the people who I get the best results with. They just do it. They just get it. In fact, I often hear them say, I don’t get why. When people know this is what I’ve got to do and if I do this, I’ll get the results. I don’t understand why they don’t do it. They just don’t get it. Bless them because the reality is I find that the majority of people, they don’t just do it. They will know what they’ve got to do and then they will start sabotaging. They will procrastinate on it. They will second guess and I’ve, I’m really, there’s a lot of reasons that can come to this, but I have really come to recognize that one of the main ones is fear and very often it’s a fear of rejection or a fear of failure. It’s things that move them out of their comfort zone and because of that, they, they don’t do it and they will make excuses to themselves.

I got really, really busy songs. I got sick. This happened, that happened. But if they really, really honest and I want you to be honest with yourself, there’s some kind of fear behind there and I get it. I totally get it. And you know what, there’s lots of things that I can say to you, like really understanding what the theory is dipping into it. But you know what, what I find is the best way is if, you know, and, and I, with my VIP clients, we work at 90 day plans. They know what they’ve gotta be doing every single month, breaking it down into weeks so they know the actions I need to take to get the results. And a lot of people like just don’t do it. And instead of trying to psychoanalyze too much of it, the best thing is to go right. I’m just gonna do it.

I’m going to stop thinking, I’m going to stop second guessing. I just know it’s gotta be done. I’m going to do it right now. So that’s my challenge to you. Just take the emotion out of it and just do it. If I bring it back to the thread that I’ve had going through this, which is my quest to get, you know, continually to get fitter and stronger and full of energy is when that alarm goes off at five o’clock you know, I, I say I get up at five o’clock but I don’t bounce hours. It’s not worth me going, Oh God, all right, it’s five o’clock I can’t wait to get up. There is always those things that go through your head and if I allow myself to second guess, I can very, very easily talk myself into the reason why I need to be in bed that morning.

The only way to do it is to not think and just do it. So it doesn’t sound very glamorous, but I can tell you what, it takes the emotion out of every thing you were doing. So if you take that emotion out, just do it without thinking. It gets easier and easier and easier. And that’s why you will hear me using the phrase scare sighted or the term scare side, which is just a word I made up, which is that feeling when you’re really scared, like it may be pushing you out of your comfort zone. You might be feeling, you know what, and if I do this, if you know, I could get, I could get rejected, I could get fail, I could go make a fool of myself. All of these things, it feels scary, but it’s kind of exciting because if I do it, I can get the results.

So just step into it and stop thinking about it. So that’s my thing to you. Now what am I challenge is I want you to commit to one thing that you have that you know, if you get this done, it’s gonna make things work and just do it. Okay? Just do it. Stop thinking. Don’t second guess, don’t procrastinate. Take the emotion out. Just do it. Okay. I read, honestly, I reckon if you can nail that one and sometimes you just got to pretend that you’re a different person, the kind of person that just doesn’t understand why you wouldn’t do it. I’m just doing that over and over again. Ro Rolls over into all these other activities. Okay. Now here is a another one that kind of fits in with this one as well is I find that the clients who I get the best results with, the ones who get success and it’s without stress and you know, I, I can, I think where I can go, oh, they just followed step by step exactly what I said to do.

I just did it and wow, it worked. You know, look at the results they’re getting. It’s great. Is these are the people who they don’t second guess their advisors all the time. So they take their time to choose who it is that’s going to be their coach or their mentor. And this may be who’s going to be teaching them with their sport. Or it could be me, when it comes to building your business online, it could be somebody else that you’ve got that’s going to be helping you with a different part of your business. It doesn’t even have to be somebody that you’re choosing to pay. It might be, you know what, this is the author that I’m going to follow and I really resonate with them. I like their systems, I’m just going to follow it. So they take their time to choose who they’re gonna learn from.

It doesn’t mean that they do ridiculous research, but they know that I trust this person. And once they’ve made that decision, then they just listen and do just get on with it. So they don’t second guess. I find the people that that they’re good can really struggle in getting things done is even though they know, you know, they can see, you know, here’s the step by step to do. It’s worked for other people. They fight back against it. So they will second guess. They’ll question constantly and they will question me, no question the process. Are you absolutely sure this is what I need to do? And the problem is it’s because it’s moving them out of their comfort zone and so they really don’t want to do it so they’re going to second guess. But the thing is that just uses so much of your energy is so incredibly inefficient that instead of getting on and just applying it I’ll use a lot of energy, you know, not backing themselves and not backing whoever it is that they have chosen to, to guide them to get the outcome they want.

Now I also get that if you are entrepreneurial, you love to create, I totally get that where you want to be able to do things your way and have your own spin on things. But here is a really sound piece of advice and that I’ve got from every single one that actually gets the results the fastest is just follow along and do the steps, get the results, and then you can go back and look at, okay, what can I tweak to make this my own? What are the safe bits to tweak? And one of the that I need to lead them as they are because that works. That’s when you get to put your own spin on it. But not that first time. Okay. So as an example, because following with the what they might, my one that I’m focusing on at the moment is at the moment I just know that I wanted to get strong and to be, you know, just really energetic.

So as part of that, I knew that I needed to do some things with my diet cause I’d slowly been putting on weight. So something was going wrong in there. And also to get strong, I knew I needed to be doing a bit of weight lifting and I didn’t know how to do that without hurting myself. But I did not want to have injuries. So I took my time to find a personal trainer. And when I’m saying time, talked a bit from people at the gym, thought I resonate with her, she’s got a system, that’s who I’m going with. And so I just do absolutely everything that she tells me to do because I can tell her my goals. She helps me to work out the best plan. You know, she helps me with the working out all my macros and my diet. She’s got the, you know, these are the ways that you’ve got to live.

This is the exercise you’ve got to do. Doesn’t mean I always like her, you know, she kinda gets my, you know, my, you know, don’t muck with me face, but I just say to her, I trust you. You know what you’re doing. I’m just going to do whatever you’re telling me to do. If you think I need to carry a heavier weight, I will do exactly what you say. Just tell me what to do. And the thing is the results and there. So that’s how I am doing that in my own life where I actually say to her, you’re the boss, baby. I trust you just telling me what to do and I’ll do it. And that gets the results because I know that that’s what the clients who get the best results with me, that’s what they do. And so then my question to you is, are you, are you, are you kicking back against the advice?

And I want you to ask yourself, why are you doing that? Is it because you don’t trust the person that you’ve got? But if you go, well, no, I do. Well, look at yourself. Why are you fighting back? Isn’t a need for creativity or is it because you really don’t want to do that work because it’s moving you out of your comfort zone or it seems too slow or it’s hard work. I want you to be really honest with yourself cause this could be one of the things that could be holding you back. Now we’re up to the very, very last one and I’m just gonna get my notes here in front. And okay, so this the very, very last one, and it sounds, it sounds kind of crazy when I say that the people who get the fastest results are the people who are focused on the long game.

Sounds really counterintuitive, doesn’t it? You would think it’s the people who are going to hustle, hustle, hustle, and go fast, that that’s, you know, and they’re going for the quick results. And if it doesn’t work, then move on to the next thing. It’s not actually how it works because when you play for the long game, and especially when you take into account these other factors that I’ve talked about, such as I’m focusing on a personal best, is they don’t see failure as the end is. If something doesn’t work, sure people are human, they’ll, they’ll just go, oh no, I’m frustrated. You know, have a good cry, perhaps a bit of a rant and rave. And then they will go, okay, right? So what did work? What can I take and do better? What didn’t work? Because I’m still moving towards my goal. What can I do now to keep on getting back?

So it’s that resilience that comes from not seeing a failure as well. That’s the end now. And also means that you’re thinking, okay, well I’m not doing this so well at the moment, but if I keep on improving, I’m going to get to where I want. So I’ll give you a couple of examples that are in my own life. And one of those is I should have a podcast episode recently and you can go and find it there on the romance your tribe website about when I worked on a launch for months and I’ve been in, I’ve been doing launches for years. I worked on a launch for months, finally went live and got zero sales, not a single sale months with work. How depressing. That would’ve been very, very easy to just give up and go, well, the product was wrong. People don’t want it.

They don’t like me. They’d be like, whatever, all those things. But instead I applied this exact strategy that is actually one of the things that I do have very, very strongly is that grit of not giving up. And if you listen to that podcast cast, you’ll hearing the exact steps that I took that meant that what started off as a zero sale has now made me hundreds of thousands of dollars. If I had given up then it would never have happened. So another thing that you may find and a great example is I’ve got on the whip on the the podcast page that goes with this episode, some links there and are one of those is a link to Oprah’s audition video. And if you have a look at the video that she created, like you look at it and you go, that is Oprah. Like that’s pretty amateurish stuff.

But because she didn’t see that, you know, what I’m doing here is not good enough. She just kept on working at it, kept on going and you know, obvious fantastic story. So there may be something that you were doing where you’re thinking, you know what, this didn’t work. And if we stick with the idea of videos that I just gave with Oprah, it could be that you’re going, you know, I’m going to do a video, but you did a Facebook live for example, and no, nobody watched. So you might go, well, what’s the use? Why am I am doing this? It doesn’t work. If you keep on going and thinking, all right, I’m not going to give up, what can I do next? What can I do better? Then you can start to see the huge change. I’ve also put a link there to the very first video that I did that I put out to my mailing list and we’re talking amateur Ville baby.

But it has now become, video has become my major way of communicating with people and it’s my major way of getting my message out there with content. And it’s what attracts people to me and converts. If you know, that’s an example there. I’ve also got another podcast interview with Denise Duffield Thomas, where she shared how the very first time that she ran a Webinar, nobody turned up. And the second time and the third time, she’s now a multimillionaire that again is playing the long game and not giving up. So my question to you is, are there things that you’ve come up against something that it didn’t work and you’ve given up, you’ve gone that didn’t work or it was never going to work or I did it wrong. This doesn’t work. Whatever it is that you’ve got, are you playing the long game? Are you going to give up now when you get the first hurdle or are you going to keep that goal in mind?

Because as counter insured is as it sounds, the people who do get the best results in the fastest way and with the less stress are playing that long game. So that is my challenge to you. Now, I’ve covered quite a lot here and to make it really easy for you, I’ve got that action plan for you. So you can go to the podcast page. So it’s on the romance, your tribe.com website and you can find this episode there. If you’re on iTunes, you can just click the link and it’ll take you over there. Now on there, you can download this action sheet. I really do recommend you go and get that because I’ve designed it to make it really easy for you to be able to analyze the areas that you can improve on and some action steps that you can take for each of those five points.

So that is there to help you. I would love to hear from you on any Ahas that you have had from today because I tell you what, now I can help you with strategies. I can help you to know what’s going to be the best things to suit your personality, your strengths that’s going to work in your business, the type of program that you need to create that’s going to be best for you, the best way for you to be using contents, the best way for you to convert that, you know, I can help you with all of those strategies. That’s my gig. But if you don’t master these steps, these mindsets steps for success, it’s a slow process for you. And that’s what I want for you. I want you to be able to really, you know, just totally be able to nail these five character traits.

Because if you get that, then everything that I can do with you, everything that other people who can help you to grow your business and get your goals, the greater that you’re going to be able to get a return on that time that you spend. And that’s what I want for you. Because baby, there are people who need you, people who are waiting for you to just step up, get out there and make it happen. And if these things are stopping you from doing that, everybody loses. Okay? So I’d love to hear from you. Please leave your comments. And if you have a friend in business that you know that needs to hear this, I would be very grateful if you would pass this on to them because they have got people who need them and they’re just waiting. Okay, bye.

The 5 Connector Styles of Content Marketers

The 5 Connector Styles of Content Marketers

When you are in the business of transforming the lives of your clients, it is your expertise and unique ideas that influence if they see you as the Tribal Business Leader they want to work with. That’s why content marketing, in a way that truly builds connection, is such an important part of your brand building and sales processes.

Today I introduce you to Emma Franklin Bell, a brilliant woman who has been part of my Attract Your Tribe Accelerator program for the past 6 months. Emma has developed a very unique framework  to help you consistently amplify your authentic voice through whatever medium you’re using (which could be written, audio or video).

We dive into the 5  different connection styles of communicators and how to build on your unique strengths to create truly powerful content. 

We also dive into the mindset of what it takes to be the person that really stands out and builds a business that positions them as the leader in their field. We break those down and then show you how to adopt those characteristics into your own business practice so you have the discipline to consistency create great content that builds on the strengths of your connection style.

Plus, we talk about ballet 🙂

Here’s what you’ll discover today:

  • How the mass market is not important now and the role of connection in our economy
  • Emma shares how she learnt communication through dance and how that relates to communication in business
  • I share the common characteristics I’ve observed in the clients who get the fastest results and then break this down, demonstrating how Emma’s story is a perfect example.
  • Emma shares the distilling of her message while working with me in the Attract Your Tribe Accelerator program that changed her platform to one of thought leadership, instead of “how to”. 
  • The importance of discipline as a content marketer. You can’t disappear for months! I have a bonus podcast action guide for you to help you with this
  • How to choose which media type is best for you from  audio, video, books, podcasts and writing.
  • The 5 connection styles for communicating with content and the strengths (and problems) each type has when creating content.
  • You can take this quick quiz to determine your connection style.

Plus action steps you can take THIS WEEK to create a  content marketing plan that builds on the strengths of your connection style.


Plus a special podcast bonus for you today. An action guide to download  “The Disciplined Content Marketer’s Mindset Action Guide”.


You can check out the brilliant free Connector Style Quiz.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

Click the image below to download the BONUS worksheet!

Emma’s Bio

Emma Franklin Bell is a writer and communications expert. She is passionate about helping women increase their visibility, amplify their message and step into leadership.

As a podcaster, Emma has interviewed over 100 entrepreneurs from all around the globe.

As a featured guest she has appeared on numerous shows including The Mark Bouris Show, Should I Start A Podcast with Ronsley Vaz and Women, Leadership & Work with Megan Dalla-Camina.

Emma is the author of 3 books and has also written and spoken for Leadership HQ Magazine, Wellness Hubs and Business in Heels.

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d love for you to take a quick minute to share your thoughts with us and leave an honest review and rating for the show over on iTunes!

Read The Transcript Here

Janet Beckers:          Hello and welcome everybody. Janet Beckers here and I’m really excited to welcome you to introduce you to my wonderful friend and guest here, Emma Franklin Bell. Hi Emma!

Emma Franklin:         Hi Janet. So great to be here. Really looking forward to the conversation.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah, me too. Me Too. We’ve got some really fantastic, really practical steps for you to take today, everybody that’s listening. So, and we’re going to be sort of breaking this into two parts. One which is going to be out, get at pens and start writing. We’re going to be talking about content, creating content and getting it out there to represent your brand in a really unique way that Emma has developed to help you to be able to really consistently get your authentic voice through whatever medium you’re using. So I’m really excited to spend some time diving into these different connection styles. So we’re going to spend some time doing that, but we’re also going to dive into the mindset of what it takes to be the person that really stands out and builds a business. And because Emma has some wonderful characteristics that I would love you to be able to do, I just want to bottle it up and we can have essence of Emma that we, that you know, that I could give to you so that you can really model these characteristics. So without being able to bottle up Emma, we’re going to dive into those unique things that you can be modeling yourself. So we’re going to split it into two. What does it take to do it and then how do you get your, your message out there?

Emma Franklin:         So sounds good.

Janet Beckers:          Very exciting, very exciting. So just start with tell us who, who is it that you help and how do you do that?

Emma Franklin:         I help women who are generally in the businesses that help transform lives and change lives. So that’s coaches, healers, therapists, practitioners. So the spaced women and I help them to unlock their signature ideas and then amplify that. So, and using, you know, mediums that are online that we know about, like video and audio and interviews and written word and book writing. So anything that is going to yes, take the, take the magic out and then amplify it out to those people who need it. That’s what’s most important. Not not to everybody, but to the people that need to have those messages land for them. So, so that’s the work that I do with women and it’s incredibly fulfilling work.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. And I love how you just said, take that magic out and amplify it. That is such a beautiful way of putting that. And I love how you’re really specialized in getting the message, you know, the way that people communicate content of getting it out there. Because that’s the thing is there’s so many people, you know, we work with very, very similar people and there are so many people who are absolutely brilliant at what they do, really, really good, but they can’t communicate it properly. So nobody [inaudible]

Emma Franklin:         Yeah. That’s right. And so what I’ve found is that, yeah, the, the magic and the message is, is it’s one thing, but then you can have people who have already discovered that they know what they want to say. And it’s the, the process of how can I say it? How can I communicate that? And I mean it was Seth Godin who a few years ago coined the term the connection economy and he talked about certain things, you know, all sorts of things to do with that. But he talks about how, you know, that media is now optional. You know, people can choose what they’re going to look at. Is it video? Is it podcasts? They’ve got… It’s not like the old days where everybody had the TV and you were kind of locked in to whatever channel. So it’s incredibly optional. It’s curated. And also the fact in terms of connection, like I said, about appealing to the people who need your work now it is about the fact that the mass market, he also said the mass market is no longer important.

You know, what is important is, he said, getting to the edges, getting to the edges of what’s important. And then he also said that it’s work that matters. So it needs to be, you know, not content for content’s sake. That it needs to be what, what matters. And, you know, that needs to be obviously what matters to you, but also what, so that it’s so that it’s powerful and it pulls you forward on purpose, but also that it matters to the people that you’re, that you’re working with to help and transform them.

Janet Beckers:          Oh, I love it. That was so beautifully said. I mean just Seth’s work. Um, you know, I, I’m, I’ve incorporated quite a bit of his work too, cause he’s done a lot of work on tribes is that I love the way that he can sort of, you know, really create that language around that as well, which is brilliant. So that’s really, really good points that you know you’re not just being limited to the one medium now. So it’s around that connection to the right people. So. Perfect. Yes. So before we dive into how people can connect and how can they be doing it authentically. I want to just dive in a little bit into what, well, why are you doing what you’re doing now? Like what is, what’s your backstory that means you can say with total confidence, you know what, I can help you do this and I can help you get results. So just give us a little bit of a background on you and business and how, why you’re actually doing this and why doing it now.

Emma Franklin:         Sure. I suppose I’ve been connecting with audiences since I was seven and since I first decided that performance based stuff and performing arts was what I wanted to do. And then after I did my training, which we might touch on, I then opened studios. So in performing arts, in ballet. So the, the, the whole area of being able to connect with, connect with the students, connect with the teachers, connect with the parents, connect with, you know, new potential you’ve got, when you’re managing a a studio. And this can go for any studio. Cause I’ve worked with, you know, martial arts studios and yoga studios, different studio types. You, especially with a children’s based studios, you, you talking to two target markets, of course, you know, minors and you’re also talking to their parents. So, and then you’re managing the expectations of them and the teachers.

So the whole area, all of communication. And then that was what I did my degree in because I think communication has always been this fascinating piece to me. It’s, it’s the, it’s the glue. It really sits at the core of everything. Because if you can connect and communicate to any of your publics and you can then share whatever it is you’re doing, whether you’re doing the ballet classes or whether your you know, talking about the latest research in some medical thing. Yeah. It’s the communication that you need to be, that you need to be utilizing. And so how you’re doing that, how you’re connecting with people, you know, how you’re illustrating it. And so, yeah, whether it was, you know, in practical terms, connecting with an audience and having that in intensity of holding an audience in that way or running studios and connecting with people day to day on practical levels, you know, hundreds of people coming through the studio every week that you’re dealing with. Yeah, this, this whole pace. And also when you’re running studios like that, um, where it can be quite intense, you, you know, and people have their, have their, they’re very emotional in, in children’s based work. So you are managing a lot of emotions. And, and you have to be very nuanced and very, um, you know, careful with how you, and insensitive to people. So it’s just always been a fascinating art to me is community connection piece

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. I love it. And it’s, that’s actually been one of the lovely things that I’ve, in the last few months because I’m Emma and I’ve been, you know, Emma’s been working with me in the accelerator program to go, you know what, I’m ready to level it up to the next, I’m ready to take it to the next level. So let’s, let’s really work on what those core things are that that is so unique to your story that other people don’t have. And that was, and it’s been lovely really seeing you own that. You know what, I totally, this connection, this communication, I had been doing it all my life and it’s been really lovely to see you, you know, you’ve always done it, but to totally own it as you know, what this is mine and then create your own language, your own systems, everything very, very quickly around that.

Not because you are, you know, you’re walking… a real example of that, you know, of walking and talking the connection in everything that you’re doing in your life. So now one of the things that I really wanted to be able to bottle up to be able to, you know, this is the essence of Emma that I want people to be able to see is one of the things I’ve really come to notice after having worked now personally with hundreds of people in a close environment and thousands mentoring and coaching people in bigger programs, is there’s certain characteristics to the people who have the grit to keep on going to just you know, keep on turning up, keep them working towards it that get that success. And you, Emma, I’ve recognized this in you right from the beginning of, you know, just getting on, just doing the work, not knocking back.

And one of those things I’ve really noticed is if you’ve got some kind of discipline that you have had to master in your personal life, whether it is as we were talking earlier, whether it might be around learning a musical instrument but aiming for [inaudible] or very often I’m seeing it as in people who have done some kind of sports where whether they’ve been there even if they’re not competing professionally, they are approaching it with the discipline as somebody who wants to get really, really good at what they’re doing and I’m really into, I love it when I talk to somebody and they’ll show me that they’ve got a background to do with some kind of sport and some kind of expertise in that because I know that they are going to have certain mental characteristics that make you unstoppable in business. So I’d like to just dive into those a little bit before we dive into the content of around connections because I think this is going to be one of those things that means that the people who when they are going out and connecting that they can really keep that presence up, that they can continue to communicate as well.

So one of those, we were talking about this just before we before we hit record. And so I thought it would be really interesting if we just talk about your background as a performer and the discipline that you had to learn. Let’s have a look at, first of all, what is it that you learned from those, that time in your life, the things that you learnt that you can see now that you implement in your day to day business?

Emma Franklin:         Yeah. Well thanks. Thanks to that Janet and thanks for also reminding me that I you know came up with the distilled concept, you know, about this connection stuff while working with you. And that’s absolutely true. I think sometimes when you work with mentors, they’re able to pull out sort of treasures from you that you, that you didn’t quite see. So what I was doing, the stuff that then this, you’ve helped me draw, draw it out and be more distinctive with it. So that’s really good. But when we, yeah, so, so to the mindsets, I think what was really interesting for me was that yeah, at seven which was quite late actually when it comes to dance, I was, you know, dancing around the lounge room and then mom was over me kicking things.

So she took me to lessons and you know, very quickly I excelled and it was that, you know, you needed to be to doing exams and state and training 25 hours a week and having private lessons in the morning before school at 6:30 AM. And I think as a youngster I just sorta, I went with it. I loved the dance and I loved the progress and I loved what I was doing. And, teachers were in the 90s, quite strict and, you know, yeah. And you know, things have changed to be in the industry now, but, you know, the, the old days, you know, there were quite, quite straight, you know, so, so I think it was also a, whenever you had a coach to use you, the coaching kind of mentality was that you wanted to, I’m not disappoint, you’re coach and yeah.

And so there was an, especially as a young person, United States and nine, 10, 12, 13, etc, you, um, you are really, really locked into the connection that you have with that coach. And, and they develop you in the bond is very strong. So, so you’ll always remember these, these key figures that sort of peppered through your career. And, so those foundations were sort of the mindset foundations were laid down without me really choosing to do that. I, and you would say many kids as you get older who would drop out for other reasons, for certain reasons. But, um, I think yes, if it appealed to you, the, these mindsets of delayed gratification, teamwork, discipline, um, you’re only as good as your last performance, the personal best over, um, competing really with others. The others sort of raise the, raise the bar so you, so you will always be seeing what peers arrival to achieve.

But then it always comes back to the focus of, well, you know you know, can I perfect that turn or can I perfect that or best small or whatever. And so, and then because I was a, um, a Stedford student, I was there for performing, you know, every, every few weeks, all around New South Wales. And, I think that was, I mean that was really, really good to get over things like stage fright. It was kind of exposure therapy, you know. So if you had any of those things, you, you would just kind of, you just did it. You just moved through and, and you just did it. And I mean, I enjoyed it. If I, if I didn’t enjoy it and love it, then mom would have said, do you want to do this anymore? Cause she was not a stage mom.

She didn’t even bond already thing. She wasn’t like that at all. And so it was always driven by me. It was always driven by my own, you know, and I want to do it. So, so I think, yeah, I think those disciplines where those core sort of old school sort of, you know, strong strident, bold, sort of disciplines that were just, that were expected in your mindset. And then I think he then carried those out and I taught for five years, so they know I carried those into my students. I mean I carried them into business and I still continue with those today and I think we gain, it’s like a manifesto. You don’t really realize you’re doing it. But yes, other people who I’ve met who have done sport or dance the same level, they had similar mindsets. Um, and I think that the, yes, the resilience, the long game thinking, the personal best idea. Um, realizing sort of the hellistic stuff that the hurdles someone said to me once that, you know, uh, um, you know, a step back or a set back is like you do two step forward, one back. Yes. And she said, you know, I just see that as a cha-cha and I thought, Oh yes. So it’s kind of, you know, cause it’s almost like, you know, you, you, you will have those hurdles. You know, you, you will have like things that you experiment with all the time. That won’t, that won’t work. And then yes, somehow it’s the resilience of the mindset that that pulls you forward, which must say that there’s an overriding passion or as people called purpose or why that, that maybe is stronger. Because what’s funny is you don’t think about giving up you have evolves that you don’t, it must be like if you have a really great strong marriage that you’ve been in for 40 years, the, the fights that you have doesn’t mean that you leave the marriage. There’s something stronger that, that leads people forward. So I think it’s similar.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. Well, I’ve actually got some tips for people who they’re thinking about how do I actually do that if I haven’t had that background because that’s one thing that as an example so people can see what does it look like in action. I know when we were you know, for the last few months, cause Emma’s just been, you know, you know, this is the next, this is the task and then this is the result that I’ve got. Now. One of those was, okay, well I think I may, you know, this may be my focus, you know, I met for doing it. You did a survey that was a particular niche and you know, and so you did it beautifully, and I did exact, you know, the survey perfectly. You followed up with a training Webinar to really say how it went. After all of that work and the investment of time and money at the end of it, you wait, you know what?

I actually don’t think this is going to work. They’re not really invested enough. Yes. You know, this is what it’s going to be a little bit hard. Now. I know just from experience of working with so many people that for a lot of people that would have gutted their confidence, a lot, and it would’ve been very difficult. That would have had to really draw on a lot of resources, internal resources to be – had the confidence in themselves again to go out and start again. Whereas you just sort of took a blow when hi, I’m so disappointed about that. But you know, okay. But that’s all right. I’ve learned from that. This is the next step. Like that doesn’t mean that you don’t go, oh, oh yeah. And totally frustrating

Emma Franklin:         and you have a crap day you might say on, you know, I’m not, I can’t be bothered today with any of this. I’m just going to go to the beach or something. I think you have to I mean, I’m very about the self care and I talk to my clients about all the self care stuff because I think you do have to acknowledge, you know, you do have to acknowledge, um, that it’s not all sunshine and roses. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s kind of the Jack in the box thing, isn’t it? It’s the Jack in the box that nick the next day you just go through you places again.

Janet Beckers:          Absolutely you just get up and do it. And yet the people who are thinking, well that’s great in those Emma’s had that, you know, from quite young. And I am, I have been noticing with quite a few of my clients, the ones that, you know, every client has the potential to really create what they’re going to do. Just some people can do it fast and other people will take longer. And it’s, and it’s very often it’s that, that grit, that ability to take the knock and get back up with confidence and keep the momentum going is the big difference.

And so a few years ago, I can remember at Tiff if you’re listening to this, hello, Tiff, Tiff was one of my clients a few years ago who was an athlete and I was saying to her, tiff, I just want to bottle up this grit, you know, this resilience that you’ve got. Um, and I know that it comes from you haven’t been an athlete for so many years. And so we used to joke when I would say to her, I’m an athlete too, and I wasn’t, you know, but I thought, you know what? So for people who were thinking, can you do this? I decided after with tiff and certificate, I’ll have to let TIF know that I’ve mentioned her a few times. Tiffany Michael, awesome woman is I thought, you know what, I’m going to see if I can start to, even though I’ve got a lot of that already, I’m going to see if I can actually make this a default by channeling what I’m recognizing and other people who have been brought up in that way.

And so the challenge to you is to choose one thing, whether it’s going to be walking, running, swimming, whatever it is. It could be an instrument, it could be art, it could be a particular hobby. It doesn’t matter what’s important. Is that something that you want to get good at and then choose to just start off small. But it’s the discipline of going. For example, I decided I was going to get good at swimming, found a group of friends, they get up at 5:00 AM like to meet. So you know, that was the big thing. So can I do that once a week? Can I do it twice a week? Just starting those little tiny things and every time you do it, you just recognize what you were doing and tell yourself, you know what, I resilient, I have got the discipline and every single time you were doing that, starting off that small. And then when you do have the times when you don’t get up, recognize that, you know what, I didn’t demonstrate that, um, particular discipline or, or doing what I said I’m going to do. And incremental growth. I think what’s really interesting there that you mentioned is, is the incremental

Emma Franklin:         growth. You don’t go from nothing to, okay, I’m going to do five days a week at 5:00 AM. Yeah, in my view you could do it. But I think it’s hard to sustain it. You know, you might be able to do that for a month, but it’s the sustaining a longterm. So I always talk about, you know, with, with clients, especially if they’re wanting to write a book or something and they’re not going to do a, a sort of a hot house way of doing it. They want to just do it over the next six months or something. It’s the incremental growth. So if you sit down and say, okay, you’ve got to write 5,000 words, it won’t work that you can do, you know, a hundred words and then 200 and 300 and it, and it builds up. So I think, yeah, with any disciplinary practice, the [inaudible] going to take you on and make sure you enjoy it, make sure it’s something that’s fun for. But then just do it once a week and they maybe do it twice a week.

Janet Beckers:          Now it’s every single day. It’s all the swimming will running with gym or training for something else and or art and art, the whole lot. It does. It’s incremental. It becomes normal. Now the reason why I want to make this and we’ll move over to the next topic now to segway. The reason I want to make sure this is Emma’s specialty is helping you to get your message out. The connecting through content, through communication, that takes a level of discipline. Because you want to have consistency. You want to be not just, hey, here I am. And then they go, where did she go? Like there was somebody who I really connected with six months ago, but I haven’t seen anything since then. You’re going to have to have that discipline to be able to implement and to be able to approach it in a way of can I be a better connector?

Can I communicate better? So that’s why I wanted to take that time talking about this puzzle. So it’s just so wonderful for you to get an you just for you to be able to see those little nuances in a mindset that can really make the difference for you to be able to create success in your business. So now I’ll move over. Now first of all, let’s just get clear on the different connection mediums. So what are the ways that people can connect when we’re talking about people who are in a business with, they helped create transformation for people. So yes, medium, what sort of medium do you help people wait and what are the ones that people can be using?

Emma Franklin:         So the medians that you’ll probably see everywhere, um, are the, are the channels that you would have heard of, you know, so when it comes to audio, you know, it’s podcasting, it’s MP3s. It’s anything to do with the audio, the, when it’s video, it can be live, it can be Webinar, it can be prerecorded, anything like that. And then you’ve got a written word, like you’ve got blogging, you’ve got articles. If you want to go further than that, you’ve got books. You’ve then got, you know, all the stuff to do with social media, all your, all your daily work, your daily posts and those sorts of things. All to do with social. So you’ve got these different mediums. But what intimidates people quite a bit is, you know, A. Do I need to be doing all of it? And B. I don’t really feel natural. I don’t really feel like me. I don’t really feel confident to just rock up there and, um, be doing what they’ve told me to do. You know, you’ve just got to get on a Facebook live or you’ve got to start a podcast or you’ve got to write, you know a top 10 tips blog or something.

So I think in the, in the past, you know, this broad speaking stuff, broad brush stuff about just doesn’t matter. You know, just get out there, just do, do, do the stuff – can now be approached in a much more sophisticated way. I’m saying that you’re aware of all the channels and all the mediums and nanny, your approach and how your going to do the communication is actually about the connections style that is the most in sync with your personality and all the characteristics of you. That’s fantastic. And I love that you’ve covered that. There’s so many different mediums. And when we’ve made, when you mentioned at the beginning, when you were talking about Seth Godin’s work about economies, it’s not that everybody is just tied into watching the television now all of these different mediums are available. So you, the first thing you said was people saying, do I need to do all of them? What’s your thoughts on that?

My thoughts are that he wants to do the ones that feel the most natural to you because otherwise you fall off the bandwagon. Yeah, you fancy having your own podcast. And you give it a go and you learn the ropes and you and you do it and it feels really good and really solid and really like what you need to be doing. You will keep on doing it. You’ll evolve and morph, but you keep on doing it. If you’ve heard that it’s the latest marketing thing and there’s half a million is 500,000 or something on the iTunes apps and you need to be getting on there and doing it. And it’s kind of an external thing and you started and you do it and you actually don’t like interviewing.

You don’t like the whole tacky setup of you’ve got to have the Mike or something. And you do, and you do a few and you grind and you do about a dozen and then you start to drop off and start to drop off. Then you get annoyed and you get resentful. Anything, well, why am I doing this? And some of it’ll be those foundational mindsets of just get on the bandwagon and doing that. But other pieces of the puzzle, 10 day, I think that it’s not intrinsic really to you. And so you might love podcasts, but you actually need to be a guest on them, you might like,

Janet Beckers:          yeah.

Emma Franklin:         That he might need to be, I’m either getting someone or yourself or an assistant to be going through all those half a million and finding the ones that are your people and your, your, that would be great for you. And lining up an interview or week, you know, on podcasts. Yeah. So it’s, it’s, you know, what’s, what’s the approach? Same with video. Yes, it’s great to be doing all of the video and everyone talks about live and everything else. But if you’re holding yourself back and you’re not moving forward, because whenever it comes to live, you just can’t do it. Then doing recorded, prerecorded videos and maybe batching those as a way of doing video is going to be better. And then with time you might be, I’m really my grief with this now. I’ve been doing that for a year. I think I could really get into life. I feel comfortable. Yeah. You know, or it could even be, you know, if you’re, I’m more of say an advocate type connector style that you actually want to be on video, but you want to be interviewing just so there’s a little bit of space between the intensity of just you on video. Excellent ways.

Janet Beckers:          [inaudible] yeah, I love that distinction. So it’s not a matter of then maybe a matter of, well, you know what, there’s some medium, I’m not even gonna go there yet. But there’s also within each medium you can work with what your particular strengths are. So you, and, and this is where I also see that a lot of people will go wrong without go. Well, alright. So I know if I’m, for example, you know, going to be doing video that I must be doing sales videos, live videos, video podcast, I’ve got, I’ve gotta be doing the formula where as, as we’ll talk about in a minute, once you’re super clear on what’s unique about you and your natural way of doing things, you can own your particular way of doing it. So you’re working within what works, but you’re creating your own formula and that’s where you get to be in your zone of genius.

And it becomes very, very easy. Yeah know, cause like for example, I use video all the time. I could have chosen to make this podcast only audio. Now on iTunes it is audio, but we have it on everywhere else. It’s on video. And the reason I’ve chosen to do that when most people don’t is I love seeing the person’s face. Cause I work very well off people’s cues, off their body language and can then perhaps pick up things that I can be asking that I may not have picked up if it was just through audio. And so that’s because that’s I, I do easily. So use that medium in that particular way. When I tried just doing it audio, I felt like that there was just something missing. There’s other people that could be a distraction.

Emma Franklin:         So, yes. And, and I think also too, that especially if you’re starting out, you know, trying to do all of the stuff all at once, it’s just too overwhelming. Oh, absolutely. You know, you want to own it too. You want to feel good and then you can, you can branch out. And it’s the same, you know, people will sort of talk about, you know, blogging and that sort of stuff. And should I blog and writing the pain or whatever. Some people say this and then they write these beautiful posts in their social media, so they don’t even realize that they sort of doing a lot in the written word. Because they’ve sort of programmed themselves to think how old that’s got to be about articles and blogs and then they do these fantastic you know, may be couple of hundred words under a social post.

Yeah. So that’s probably feeling more connected. So is there a way of, you know, if you do one of those every couple of days, you might find that they all have a similar theme. If you’re, you know, talking about the same message that you can, you know, collect those posts, over a week. Any modern find you’ve got 600 words and then you can edit it and use that. You can say, you know, my musings from the week, or my tips from, from, from the week, you know, and you don’t even, I mean as a, a lot of great written content that that just needs to be tightened up a little bit, on people’s social posts. That’s a great point.

Janet Beckers:          And that’s in terms of people for Action Taking we’ve already given you a few things that you can be doing now. You know, it was just given already some great ideas on that. That’s a lovely one for people who may be saying, you know, putting words out there on social media because for them it’s, I’m just talking to friends, this doesn’t stick. They’re finding it easier to do. It is can you repurpose that? And I love that I do musings for for the week or a newsletter, yeah, that’s right.

Emma Franklin:         And you see, I think people often as well when they, when they are socially interacting with their social media and they do a post and then they sort of doing amusing or something, you know, they’re often relaxed. You know, you’re often on the couch all year, all year, um, you know, at the cafe or something. So you are feeling more connected and you are feeling sort of in the zone. Whereas I think sometimes people environment has a lot to do with it. And so if they open the laptop and open a blank page blog, you know, and it feels all very wiki. They like, what am I going to say? Yes. So it’s all about changing all that up, you know? And I think moving forward, this is, this is how we can see that we can be, you know, extracting, pulling out content in you know, different ways

Janet Beckers:          and giving yourself permission to do it your way. So now let’s just go over into the last part that we’ll be doing today, which is looking at how do you know, how do you find your unique connection style? And this is what I’ve just absolutely loved watching Emma create because once you sort of like totally owned, you know what, I am really good at connection and helping other people with connection. You then very quickly were able to put a great framework together to really help people because it was all there. And so I just, you know, I love what you’ve done. I’ve gone through it myself and gone, yes, you’re spot on. You’re reading my mind. So that’s what I know. Everybody here is going to listen. So first of all, where can people go so they can do this, this quiz that you’ve created to be able to identify their own unique connection style and the training that goes with it. The training’s really good, the videos that you’ve got to really help you understand it up. Perfect. So where will people go? And then we’re going to do a bit of an intro on that.

Emma Franklin:         Yeah. So you can jump over to emmafranklin.com/quiz. So that’s simple as my name’s slash quiz and yeah, the connection styles. I am, I kind of meditate on all of this because over the years doing one to one work with people you know, on their books, on my content or my businesses, I could see that with the rise of needing to be getting out there more and amplifying ourselves more, I was seeing things that hold people back. And then I was also saying that people seem to have different approaches. They had different sort of their own way and they would lean into certain styles more. And so I am so, so rather than this, again, broadly speaking, do video, do audio, but instead of thinking about, okay, well if I really own my style, so, so I worked out that there are five styles and I’ve come up with these and that is trusted advisors, storyteller, provocateur, advocate and inspirer.

So I mean they, they fairly sort of descriptive in their time of what they are. But yeah, in essence I could see that, you know, and you’ll start to see it even with people that you say follow or read authors, books and then you see them online, you’ll see that people, I mean they can have, we’ll have all of them in us and you lean into certain things when you need it, when you need to. So if you’re talking about data, you might lean more into the trusted advisor role, but in essence, you have that primary style is what you feel most comfortable in. Excellent. Yeah. So you don’t feel held back. You don’t feel you know, like trying to be someone that you’re really not, you know, so there’s all these, all that sort of stuff.

And obviously trusted advisor is someone who feels very comfortable in research, in data, in case studies. And obviously, you know, doing, doing powerpoints or reading things from books or being interviewed by people on information. You know, often academics and people like this, that trusted advisor is really strong. And I feel really comfortable in that storyteller obviously. People who draw on their own stories client stories, case studies, even things like legends mix fables to illustrate points. Yeah. So if you were talking about a mindset piece, so you were a client through something you might refer to. You know, to some, you know, talk to us in the hair, you know, some fable, but we’re all privy to knowing about and the little lessons in that.

Janet Beckers:          Oh, and I love it when people can communicate that way. Like, I, I really am drawn to the story teller type when I did your quiz. I did not come out as the storyteller. And I don’t think it’s something that I naturally do myself, but when I am exposed to somebody who is a storyteller, I’m just mesmerized, like I just follow, let them, I love them. So if they’re telling their stories, so that’s a great one. The storyteller.

Emma Franklin:         Yeah. And we all love stories because you know, um, you know, our structure and our narrative hero’s journey and that, so we, storytelling is one thing that we need to be drawing in. And what’s interesting is you can you can get confident by also drawing from the other styles. So sometimes I’ll talk to clients who say doing work as you know, I meditation teachers or something and they want to go into corporate and they will say, I’m in a corporate setting. You know, I need to be sort of sounding even, you know, even though I am, I need to be sounding more credible. I need to be sounding more like what van understand, where you can turn to the trusted advisor kind of style. And that’s where you can draw on and say, okay, I’m an inspirer, but I actually need to draw on some of those attributes.

So I’m going to look at the benefits of meditation. I’m going to look at some of these research studies and so I can show, I can be talking to people who I want to be talking to and I can give them some of the messaging that they will appreciate and want. So, you know, yeah. And so you can, you can draw on them provocateur. Obviously, you know, people who are, you know, bold, into progress, you know, you’ll see this with movements. People who sort of you know, they’re not there, they’re just going to call BS on things. They’re, they’re straight to the point. And that is one where people can feel like they can feel held back. Should I be saying this? This is really me that’s about unleashing, you know, and becoming more confident in yeah. Standing my ground, owning that kind of ribble, sort of, I guess.

Yeah. Advocate, which, which is me, is the the person who shines the spotlight on others. That’s why I love doing podcast interviews. That’s why I love working with clients and drawing them the out. So if it may, it’s always, you know, drawing out things, lifting things up and finding the truth, you know all of that stuff that the inspirer is, you know, charismatic and they, they lift their energy, they drive us forward with their, you know, joy and presence of, of the, you can do it, you know, it’s possible for you. You can do it. So, yeah, so all of them, and that’s why if you are going to do a presentation, and it was, some sort of audience that, you know, after dinner or something and I wanted it to be lifted up, you would say, yeah, I think I need to draw on that inspirer you know, I’m going to read a bit about that and I’m going to take my trusted advisor that I’m also going to inject some of the inspirer qualities.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. So that was a fine now. So it was probably like, I’m sure if you had a percentage it would probably be like not out of 10. She hates those inspirer one because they just the wind, the quiz that you went through. And I do find with mine, even though I definitely draw more on you know, the advocate is a huge one cause I love other people’s stories. But that whole thing of I believe in you, I believe in you. I believe. Yes. You know, and I know you can do this. I’m just, I’m here for you baby. I’m going to stick with you until you can do it. Cause I know you can. That’s the Inspirer that comes out. So yes, that’s, yeah, that was, it was, and it was actually quite affirming to do your quiz and to see the way that you describe it because it allows you to go, well, you know, that’s, there is still there’s a bit, there’s meat behind the, you know, the infancy inspiration story there is still, Oh yes. We still valid. It doesn’t cause sometimes there as the person who is the inspirer, sometimes you can think, you know, sure I’ve motivated you, but I’m really clever too. Yes, yes.

Emma Franklin:         And that’s right. And that’s why in the, when you go through and do the quiz, which is quick, it’s only six questions and me and you go through, it’d be great over to actually develop it and make, you know, make it more meaty and longer. Yeah, that’d be really interesting. But yeah, so it’s a quick, it’s a quick quiz and then I do talk about a bit later on about visibility blocks. And so there are things that can come up against these, these quiz styles. It’s not like, oh great, I’m the inspirer, that’s what I do. And I go out and I’m all into it and you can do it and everything and I feel great. You will come up against the blocks that are associated with that connect to style. And it’s probably things that you’ve noticed throughout your whole life. Like, yeah, cause you’re signing, you know, will people think there’s enough substance behind behind my, at my joyful way of operating, you know, and so and so, yes, you’re able to then break down those blocks by drawing on, on elements that, that prove that, you know, that’s not,

Janet Beckers:          yeah. Yeah. Nice. And I love it. So I’m a really do highly recommend everybody goes and does the quiz. It’s quite quick, but incredibly insightful. And the, and you know, as Emma’s talked about, not only did she talk about what your strengths are, she then talks about your visibility blocks specific to what your connection style is really, really useful. Very, very clever. So if you go to emmafranklinbell.com/quiz, You’ll be able to do that. Now you’re listening to this on the audio on iTunes. First of all, you’ve got to come over to the page to see this beautiful radiant smile. And also we will have some show notes there for you. And, I’ll have the links there so that you can go and do the quiz. And one of the things that we’re trailing at the moment with our podcasting is instead of writing a long article, I’m actually putting a worksheet for you to go out.

So yes. So we’ll be putting out a worksheet, not on the quiz of course, cause everybody can get that from there. But I’m going to be, we’ll be putting that there, that’s going to be guiding you through a couple of things. And I think one of the things that we’ll probably do is how you can get that mindset that’s going to allow you to be visible. Some tasks that you can be doing to help you prep, to get that mindset to be able to get visible so that when you know what your connection type is that you are going to be able to go out there with confidence and totally nail it baby. Cause I know you can do it. So sounds great. Sounds really, really, yes. So we’ll have a little of that there for you. So we’ve covered a lot of topics today. They, it’s just such a great opportunity. This is why I love doing the podcasts because if we just want it to say to you, okay, here are the different mediums that you could be using and here are connection types. Sure. That would be something that we could just do in a simple article. But to have somebody where we can dive in and see what makes Emma tick and what is it that you can take away that you can start modeling and implementing in your own approach to business that’s going to make it so much easier for you to get results. That is priceless. So I’m really grateful that you took the time to be able to break it down – how you’ve been able to take what you did from the discipline that you had to do to be you know, a fantastic performer at a high level. What that mindset is and how does that then applies to what you’re doing in business. I’m really, I’m really grateful that we did that because then it makes those, the rest of the things that we did so much more powerful for people to be able to go and implement.

So thank you so much, Emma and everybody that is listening here. Let’s now think about what’s one thing that people can do this week that’s going to help them to start, implement. Of course we’ve got to go and do the quiz. But what else? Is there something that you can think that people can be doing this week that’s going to help them to start getting more visible?

Emma Franklin:         Yes. Well I think, thanks for that wrap up there Janet. And also I think it’s a great point about when you say you can dive into these things in a more thorough way on the podcast. And that’s what I would also say to people, the, the beauty of audio and video. Once you get into your style and you move through any blocks and you, and you realize, this is what I want to do, I want to amplify my message. Especially for women who are in those industries that transform lives.

Often your work is not a sound bite. Often it needs dialogue. That’s why using audio and video as a medium and backing that argument up with you know, your, your written work. And of course if you’re an advocate, not now, you probably want to write a lot of books. But having the dialogue is really what helps you get your ideas landing and understood in people’s hearts and minds in a much easier way because they’re hearing that, that dialog. So, in terms of the practical for one where yes, you, you, you do the quiz and then you might be quite enlightened, oh, you know, this is, this is the style that I am. And then think about brainstorm the different practical ways that you think, um, that connect to style would, would, would approach being online and being more visible. And it could also mean offline presentations or talks at a networking group as well.

So mainly talking about online, but also in offline areas as well. So, you know, if you, if you are the inspirer, you know, what could you be what could you be doing and how could you be communicating it this week in a practical way? You know, so whenever you’re work is, could you be angling those posts this week in a more uplifted inspirational way as well as whatever you talk about that in a, in a slightly more in a voice that is more inspirational because that’ll probably be feeling more in sync with you. Yeah, yeah. Or if you’re thinking, that you want to do a prerecorded video, you know, don’t get stiff and think about what you should be doing. But you know, if you, if your, the provocateur, you know, maybe put on some music that gets you in the zone of how you really feel. And then when you, when you do the prerecorded, the, you just have that energy coming through a bit more, you know, don’t go, slammed ridiculous. But just having that energy sort of behind what you doing more and you’ll just start leaning into it more and more. And more and more.

Janet Beckers:          Mm. That’s brilliant. Tips, brilliant tips. And one last thing I do want to leave people with is when you do go over and do the quiz from Emma, keep your eye open because at the time of recording, um, Emma has a new book that will be coming out very, very soon. And what’s the title?

Emma Franklin:         It’s “Write your first Nonfiction Book” making it really clear. Yes. It’s about writing your first book. That’s nonfiction coming out in August. Um, and it’s a book written, um, off the, off the back of all the work and material that I’ve done in groups and one to one with people who are writing their first nonfiction. So it’s practical, it’s got exercises and it takes you right through all the things you need to know, um, to get your first book written.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah, that is wonderful. This wonderful. Thank you so much for your time today and thank you everybody that’s here has always, the best thing that you can do is to give us some feedback. So go to Emma, you know, stalk her on social media. When you’ve done the quiz, just drop her an email and tell her yeah, just one thing that you have taken away today and an action step that you are doing. I would love to hear from you as well. So either drop me an email, leave a message, um, you know, um, you know, on social media, come and talk, come and talk to me. They’d tell me what was it that you know, something that you’ve taken action on because honestly that is the biggest thank you. That we can get in return for putting, you know, taking the time to be able to share these stories with you is just knowing that it’s helped you to do some action is priceless. So we’d love to hear from you and if you are listening on iTunes, I would really appreciate if you would share that as one of the, as a comment or review and honest thing like what have you taken away that would really help other people to be able to discover people like Emma as well. Okay. Thank you so much everybody for taking the time to be here and thank you so much, Emma. It’s just been really inspiring.

Emma Franklin:         Thanks Janet. It was, it was wonderful. Really wonderful. Thank you. Okay, bye.

How to Write Your Own Sales Copy with Authentic Emotion

How to Write Your Own Sales Copy with Authentic Emotion

Mastering writing your own sales copy is a skill I reckon you get the greatest return on as a business owner. No-one knows and understands your clients as well as you do. No-one knows your products and services better than you. So the best investment you can make it to learn the skills to communicate with your potential clients, how you and your solutions will help them.

This skill to communicate, that’s copywriting.

It’s not just sales letters. When you know how to write your own sales letters, you master communication for emails, blog posts, social media posts, videos scripts… communication at every stage you have a touch point with a potential, and existing clients.

But it’s not easy! That’s why there are so many formulas, templates and even fill-in-the-blanks sales letter generator software programs. But even if you use a great template, like I’ve created as part of our Attract Your Tribe program, you still need the skills to truly connect with your readers at an emotional level that makes your copy speak authentically in a voice your perfect avatar.

To help you, today I’ve invited Pauline Longdon as our podcast guest. Pauline is the expert in writing authentic copy that truly connects on an emotional level and resonates with a conscious consumer.

Here’s what you’ll discover today:

  • How hiring a bad copywriter started Pauline down the track of “I can do better” and onto world-class reputation as a copywriter for conscious consumers
  • Why so many marketing funnels fail and why copy is so much more than a good sales letter.
  • Why you as the business owner need to know how to really connect with the emotions of your ideal customer, and in a way that is truly authentic.
  • The truth about writers block and how to write great copy every day – even if you just don’t feel in the zone. (I have a bonus cheat sheet for you on this)
  • Clever online ways to really get inside the head of your target market
  • Why Pauline writes her copy for her mum, and who you should use as your muse.
  • Collateral consumers and why they matter
  • 3 big tips so you can totally nail writing your own copy

Plus action steps you can take THIS WEEK to start writing your own sales copy that really connects with your readers on an emotional level.


Plus a special podcast bonus for you today. An action guide to download  “Kiss Writer’s Block Goodbye Action Guide”.


You can check out the brilliant free copywriting resources Pauline has created over here.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

Click the image below to download the BONUS worksheet!

Pauline’s Bio

Pauline Longdon is an author, podcaster, direct response copywriter, and marketer. She specialises in writing to the conscious consumer.

Pauline’s been trained by the “who’s who” of the copywriting world. She started her copywriting journey out of necessity when she couldn’t find anyone who could write copy for her New Age business.

She has never looked back.

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d love for you to take a quick minute to share your thoughts with us and leave an honest review and rating for the show over on iTunes!

Read The Transcript Here

Janet Beckers:                  Hello everybody! Janet Beckers here and I’m really excited today to introduce you to gorgeous Pauline Longdon from the Copy Alchemist. How are you gorgeous?

Pauline Longdon:            I’m great. Thank you, it’s awesome to be here.

Janet Beckers:                  Today is such a really valuable topic that we’re going to be doing here. So make sure you take notes because we’re going to be talking about doing copy, which is like sales letters, emails, blog posts, absolutely every single thing that you could possibly be communicating. You need the skills of copywriting. So whether you’re going to be getting somebody else to do it for you or whether you’re doing it yourself, you don’t want to sound like everybody else. And that’s the hard part. So that’s what we’re going to be covering today from somebody who’s, this is her absolute expertise. So I’m really, really excited to welcome you here, Pauline. Now before we get diving into our topic and for everybody that’s here, make sure you’re taking notes.

It’s, you know, we’re going to be covering lots of really good actionable tips for you. And just so you know, I also have a special Freebie for you today. Before we get stuck in, just so you know, if you’re listening to this on iTunes, come over to the podcast page because there I’ve got a Freebie for you where I’ve actually got a worksheet where we’re going to be going over… so you can take some action today on the things that we’ve covered. So as well as some gifts from Pauline, I’ve also got that one there for you that goes with this podcast. So I’m actually go over, so I’ve just got that housekeeping out of the way. So heading over to you, Pauline, before we get started, can you just introduce yourself cause it’s lovely to have another fellow Aussie. And we’ve got a lot of background that will cover that.

We’ve realized we have a lot in common, but, um, if you could just let people know, you know, who it is that you help and how do you do it. And then we’ll get stuck into some really good stories.

Pauline Longdon:            Okay. So I’m a copywriter. And so that means that I write words for whatever people need, websites, emails, sales letters. I love sales letters. They just really float my boat. I help business people who are struggling to write copy for themselves or perhaps they’ve been burnt by copywriters in the past and there are so many people, which is, and you know what Janet? That is why I became a copywriter. I was a business owner. I got someone to write some copy for me. It cost me a small fortune. Actually, it was a big fortune at the time. The copy sucked I asked for it to be rewritten. They said, if you think he can do better, do better. And I said, well, honestly, I can’t do any worse. So then I jumped down the copy writing rabbit hole and I have never looked back. And the irony was that I did do better and then people decided to hire me to become a copywriter, to write copy for them. So I became a copywriter and yeah, I love it.

Janet Beckers:                  Isn’t that funny? That’s like, that’s, I mean, that’s pretty arrogant. See if you can do better.

Pauline Longdon:            Yeah, yeah. I’m a Taurus and I’m a bit stubborn, so like it’s red flag to a bull. It’s like you watched me. Yeah. And they’ve been watching me ever since.

Janet Beckers:                  Oh, there you go. Oh, that’s, yeah. So I love that you… wait, so you’re copywriter, so you do copy for people. Is that the main way that you help people or what about for people who don’t want to hire a copywriter? Can you help?

Pauline Longdon:            Well, I can, I can help people, learn how to write copy. So I’ve got mentees and students that are teach, um, because I think one of the things is, even if you don’t want to hire it, if you do want to hire a copywriter, you still need to have a little bit of a basic lesson in copywriting because, you know, sometimes we will, we’ll look at the copy and go, you know, just feels off. Well, I don’t know what ‘feel off’ means. So, I hope paper to communicate, you know, what’s right and what’s wrong with copy. But also, here’s the thing about copy, because copy doesn’t occur in a vacuum. It occurs in a space and we call that marketing. So with marketing, um, I can help people, you know, I can analyze their funnel to see, cause a lot of people think that they’ve got a marketing funnel but they have a marketing calendar cause it’s got so many holes in it.

Janet Beckers:                  Ah, that’s a good way, yeah.

Pauline Longdon:            So what I do is I’ll map out their copy and I’ll say, okay, so you’ve got guys from an ad that you guys to, an editorial goes to, this goes to this. So, but where’s this go to? He does a jump. So because I started as a marketer first and then we need to copy, I’ve got that whole suite that I can then just map it out and say this is what you need. Or if they don’t have a big budget, I say this is the minimum viable funnel that you need to get the results. Because you’ve got to be honest Janet. Marketing, copywriting is about results. Yeah. That’s what we do it for. Otherwise, why waste your money?

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, absolutely. Because it’s about, and this is where people I think sometimes get so wrapped up in the whole technical part of, you know, should I be putting full bullet points or you know, seven bullet points, you know, and all of the structure and things that go into it. And these are the headlines that always work. They get so wrapped up in all that technical stuff that they forget that this is about communication. It’s really just a way of helping people understand is have they got the problem and is it important enough to them to actually spend money to solve it? And have you got the solution? Like it’s just communication. Yes. What we thought we would do is, um, you know, if everybody that’s listening here is to make, we’re going to, we thought we covered two here for you. So Pauline and I are really gonna dive into what makes a difference between like just copywriting.

Like it could be written by anybody and that real authentic emotion that goes into it. Like how do you make it really connected sound like you. So we’re going to cover that up. You thought, before we do that we thought we might dive a little bit into how on earth do you get yourself in the right mindset to even be able to write and be able to express and to be able to basically get your act together. Because most people and my hand up is there is you know, cause I’ve studied a lot of copywriting but I only use it for myself and you know, but I’ve seriously got to get myself in the right mindset to be able to write copy for myself, you know, little in line somebody else because otherwise I just stare at the screen and fridge or go and check the fridge like, you know, at least every 30 minutes to see if there’s something new in there. So let’s what do we dive into that a little bit first, Pauline? Yeah.

Pauline Longdon:            Yes. I think that’s really good because, you know, as, as a professional copywriter, I can’t, and I don’t have the luxury of waiting till I get in the zone or when the muse comes and visits me in sprinkles fairy dust on me and says, you shall ride copy. Now I haven’t got that luxury. So I’d love to share that with people because they, they don’t have the luxury either. They are busy business owners and this is copy is only one little part of what they do.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah. Excellent! Well, let’s look at… So for you what’s the things that people really need to take into account in order to first of all, get themselves organized? Yeah. To be able to start writing their copy and then what can we be doing that’s really practical things to get your mindset right yet energy, right?

Pauline Longdon:            Yeah. So I think the biggest thing that I noticed that people don’t do is that they don’t know who they’re writing to. And I will give you a tip from a, you know, every copywriter that I’ve learned from and I’ve learned from some of the best in the on the planet, is that research, your copy is one in the research. Now, research is more than just facts and figures though, because people will talk about with your research, you’re researching the demographics. So that’s how old they are, whether they’re male or female, they’re psychographic. So what magazines I read and you know, all that sort of stuff, but there’s something that people miss all the time. And so I’ve added a new word too to the mix and Michael, call it a emotion graphics there, the emotions that people are feeling and how do you find out those easy? We, we live in a time where there is unprecedented candid view of everyone’s lives and it’s called the Internet.

It’s called Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And all of those social media people are so candid on those things. And what I do in my research is I tap into what they’re feeling about certain things. And this is what emotional graphics are, is like what are the feelings I feel about things like, so say for instance, someone like Donald Trump, I’m like my goodness. Like people are so triggered about that on both ends of the spectrum. So if you’re writing to a very liberal, you know, liberal as in American liberals, then he’s the enemy. If you’re writing to the conservatives, he’s, he’s a hero. So knowing your audience is paramount because they will actually sometimes give you the words that you use in your copy. So, and one of my mentors, Dan Kennedy said, if you can tell someone their problem as well as they can all, if not better, they will instantly think that you have the solution.

Janet Beckers:                  That’s such a great line!

Pauline Longdon:            So if you’re using [inaudible] yeah, if you’re using their words, then they instantly think that, that you have a rapport. And also here’s the thing, you do it. This is not fake or it’s not trickery or manipulation. What you’re doing is you actually getting to know the person you think about in real life. You can’t have a conversation with people if you don’t know what interests them. You just stand there and go, yes, the weather’s lovely today. You know, we know people. You can have a really good conversation and that’s all copy is, its a conversation.

Janet Beckers:                  I liked how you talked about, it’s not manipulation because a lot of times people have a huge mindset barrier to the idea of copywriting and especially about talking about emotions. And I love your term of the, what was it? Emotion, your emotion, your graphic and emotion graphics. I love that one that they hold, they’ll really go against it going, but that’s manipulative. But any conversation that you’re having with people is you could call it manipulation. You could call it genuinely caring and getting to know what people think. Yeah. It’s, you know, it’s, you know, if you’re using it for good or evil is the difference in, Hey, if you’re listening to this podcast, I know you’re using it for good. So, yeah. Yeah, that’s a really important one. So I love that you talked about that research because when I started wonderful web women, which was the precursor to romance your tribe, and I ran that for 10 years my previous business. And Art Gallery had failed, like lost absolutely. Every cent I had was seriously scarred. And I realized that I hadn’t done the research. I didn’t understand people’s emotions. And so when I did that research for wonderful web women, I was gonna make sure I knew everything, but there was no Facebook or anything with that. So I actually went along too.

I went to marketing events in the women’s toilets at lunch time. Yes. When along the queue is everybody’s lining up to go to the loose with an MP3 recorder asking them what they felt about everything, what were their frustrations. Now you don’t have to stalk in the women’s loos. You can just go to Facebook and see what people are. Yes. So I love that. So that’s, that’s the number one thing, like really in getting yourself ready before you even start writing, getting organized. Excellent. Over to you baby!

Pauline Longdon:            So yeah, getting to know who you’re writing to. We’ll then help you to get into that zone. One of the things that I do also is I’m going from the research then, you know, people will talk about you form an Avatar of who, who you’re writing to. The problem with an Avatar is that there are two dimensional person. Even if you write those great big stories that you know, like Susan Smith is a 65 year old woman, she’s got 10 65 grandchildren, blah, blah blah.

She goes to yoga on a Monday morning and all that sort of stuff. It doesn’t matter because she’s still created. She actually isn’t a real person. But what I encourage my students and people that I talk to about the Avatar. Start with the Avatar, but that is not the destination. So I start with Avatar and then find someone in your, in your social sphere who is the embodiment of that person. So what makes the difference between flat copy and copy that doesn’t connect is people writing to an Avatar or a concocted person that the copy that does connect with someone is the copy that is written to a real person. And so the difference in my copy when people read my copy to go, Holy Shit, you know, you just caught me in the heart. You know, it’s almost like just knowing me so well I’m writing to one person, I’m not going, hey everyone, yeah, I’ve got this solution and I’ll tell you, most of the time I write to my mother cause I… the person has to be someone that you have an affection for because here’s the thing, if you’re writing to someone that you don’t like, then your copy is going to come across as hostile and taking advantage and being manipulative. But if you write to someone that you love, then you actually setting up a zone of it’s almost like a sanctuary where you’re having this conversation, but it’s meaningful conversation with someone that you love. And here’s the thing Janet, I would never rip my mom off, I would never write what copy to try to manipulate her or convince her to buy something that wouldn’t be in the best and highest for her. And as a copywriter, I don’t like for those kind of clients or products anyway.

But when I write my copy to my mother who I love and adore, but she’s as skeptical as anyone. Like that’s why cause she’s so quick to say bullshit. And so that’s why I write to her. So find someone in your social sphere, someone that you a great affection for, even someone that you love and then just write to that one person.

Janet Beckers:                  So this is the interesting, so I’m just thinking about… like my mother is definitely not, you know, anything like my customer. So mind you having said that, you know, she is maybe because of, you know, the type of customer I have or the top of market, you know, to me they’re all potential best friends and you know, my mum is really close like that. You know what if your Avatar is really quite different, like would you, would you choose somebody like your mother or would you choose somebody who’s been a great customer or that you’d love to be your customer? Could you still get that same emotion?

Pauline Longdon:            You could, but you won’t if you are writing just to a customer but surely…like, let’s take the mother out of it. Cause see I wrote write to the boomers like I’ll right baby boomers and supplement copy and other kinds of copy. But then if I’m writing to a younger, I might write to my sister or if I’m writing to a different audience, I’ll find someone that I’m friends with. You know cause I’ve got friends everywhere. There was a sales letter that I wrote recently that has just like gone crazy. And here’s the thing though, Janet, I wrote it for a male copywriter to mostly attract male copywriters to an event that we’re doing in Poland next month. And I’m the only female speaker, right? So he asked me, Trevor Cooke, asked me to write the sales letter for him. Now I’m not male, I don’t know what it’s like to be male.

So what I did was I just targeted two of the copywriting friends that I think really need to go to this conference. And I wrote the letter to them as a, as a cross character. And I’ve got to tell you, both of those people are going to the event, the copies spoke to them. But not only that, and I’ll call these like collateral consumers. It actually rippled out to other people that may not have been totally them, but we’re close enough that they, they were influenced by the copy collateral consumers. Oh, you’ve got some good phrases. I like that. Like copywriter, I know that he’s brilliant. Okay, that’s really good. But does that make sense? Like I have to be a model for me, it’s my mother for some things, for other markets that are right too. I pick someone in my social sphere that I know that would benefit from what I’m writing about and then I just have a beautiful conversation with them.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, I love it. Oh, that’s really, really good tip. Okay. So, now with getting the prep, so we’ve got, you know, for getting organized with, I love those really different tips on, you know, really getting to understand how they think and what their feelings are. So now when it comes to us getting ready to actually start doing the copy, getting out head space right for there, what’s some tips that people can use to even, you know, so they can write so it’s actually going to come from the heart and come out authentically?

Pauline Longdon:            So what I like to do, if I sit at my desk and I can’t write, I will read some really good writing. I will read a sales letter of someone that I like, I will read from an author that I like. I mean, as a copywriter one of my favorite things to do is there’s a, there was a copywriter called Gary Halbert and he, um, came out with the newsletter. So if you Google Gary Halbert Letter or the Halbert Letter, just read one of those because there has… unfortunately he’s passed, but there’s never been a copywriter who has written will conversationally than that man. And so what I did was I would read one or two of his, um, newsletters each day before I started to write. I’d write my copy and then, cause I, I sent it out each week, I send out my knowledge nuggets to my audience and they’d say, Pauline is funny at the moment because your copy is really conversational. I go, Oh, I’m reading Gary Halbert. And I said, oh, of course you are because you can tell it, it infuses into copies. So the way to be a good a writer is to read great writing. So I would suggest him, if you want to know, I had write conversationally and that’s what copies should just be a conversation that you’re having with someone else.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, yeah. That is a really good tip. You know, doesn’t that go for practically anything creative? I know, you know, cause we were both talking beforehand is that we’re both assets in different ways. Me with paint. And you were jewelry and um, you know, and I know for me to get inspiration is one of the best things I can do is go to an art gallery or even just go on Pinterest or go on Instagram and, and look for different artworks and techniques because it gives me ideas. It’s not copying, you’re not copying Gary Halbert, but it’s helping you to get your mind in that creative zone. So that’s a really, really good tip. Thank you.

Pauline Longdon:            Another thing that my mentors have been very, very big on and there are two schools of thought as with everything in life and that is to write out good copy by hand. So if you see, if you see a Facebook post or if you see an ad or a sales letter, and by the way, some sales letters are like 70 pages long, so it’s a long whole thing. I write them out by hand just to get in the zone. For me, it’s kind of like a meditation and as I’m, because when you read something out, you think that you read every word but you don’t, you scale. That’s how we read. But when you actually write it out by hand, you become more competent of the actual words that are written in the copy. And, as you said, it’s not copying per se, although we call it copywriting. We do copywriting. But you are being influenced by, you know, because copy has got like a tempo and a flow. And that’s something that you don’t actually realize until you write it out by hand and you kind of unpack what the writer was doing.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, yeah. That’s brilliant. Okay. That’s good. So yeah, you’re collecting, so I guess it’s collecting great writers to get, get yourself. So you’re, you’ve got that inspiration to start with. And, and before we actually start sitting down to write now and, and you know, and making sure that we’re using techniques that are going to be for authentic writing, is there anything else that people should do to make sure that when they sit down that they’re not going to be just staring at that screen?

Pauline Longdon:            I think if you’ve done all the research, cause like… there’s a lot of ’em conjecture about the whole idea of writer’s block. And when I think of when I was a nurse, I never ever had like nurse’s block. I never like went to the pan room, picked up a pan and go, oh, wait a minute, what was I gonna do with this again? You know, you don’t and doctors don’t have doctor’s block. They don’t open up a patient. Go, what was I operating on again? That it all looks so confusing. You know, no one else does that. So, um, as a, as a rule, I just don’t allow myself to have writer’s block. If I can’t write, I need to research more. So read more articles or, you know, get into that so that, that all happens before I sit down to write, sit down, you should be writing and ready to go.

Janet Beckers:                  You know, it’s interesting you say that because I hear a lot of people and I’m exactly the same. I just got to get in the zone, you know, so I will have I’ll get the essential oils out. I put on my earphones and I put on brain FM because that was one of the things when I was writing some sales copy. Every sir, I just ask on Facebook, all the copywriters who I knew, you know, what do you use? Like music that doesn’t have lyrics to distract you… Brain FM and you know, and then I’ll have, you know, all these nice smells and everything will be attractive around me. And then I think is this you Janet procrastinating? But part of it is because it’s like, to me that’s the rituals for anti-writer’s block. And I just love that you’ve gone, you know what, there’s no such thing. Like I’m not even going to give myself permission to even accept.

Pauline Longdon:            Can I explain why I do that? Because I’m, here’s the thing, like I’m in my office right now. I call it my bunker of brilliance, right? So I’ve got the essential oils, I’ve got things around me that, you know, make me feel happy. I’ve got my double screens, I’ve got everything here but here’s the thing, if I, anchor myself too writing only happens when I’ve got essential oils, the right music, this, that and all the rest. What happens when I’m outside of my office, because although I call this the bunker of brilliance, I’ve got the bunker of brilliance travels with me. So if I’m writer in a hotel room, I’ve even written copy in, in the laundry, in a hotel laundry while I waited for my laundry to be done in America. Cause I didn’t want someone to steal my knickers and sell them on Ebay cause they might get 50 cents, you know, kind of thing, but just joking.

Janet Beckers:                  Because it Pauline’s!

Pauline Longdon:            Yeah, that’s right. Let’s see. And I’ve always been a believer in this even cause I used to be, a woo-woo teacher like new age healing stuff and I always told my students to never empower anything outside of yourself to affect the performance that you have within you. So don’t put your power into crystals. Don’t put your power into, um, you know, anything external like essential oils or even the kind of computer that you use or the time of the day that you write. I mean if you need to write, you need to write, you don’t want to go through this dis-empowering thing of going, oh I can only write, you know, and even at the moment, like Mercury’s in retrograde, people will say that. And by the way, I do believe that it does stuff things up, but I still have to write through it.

I can’t just go no, no cruising retrograde, no writing for like a couple of months or however long [inaudible] to perform. So that’s why I say empower yourself, not the things around you.

Janet Beckers:                  That is brilliant. That is such a good tip. Now leading… so we’ve got ourselves ready now. So let’s have a look. If there is some big chunk things that when you’re writing your copy, so it is going to be authentic. So if you over to you baby, cause again, you know, I’m just here as your… as your guide to go you through.

Pauline Longdon:            So I think… going back to like the one person, what you’re thinking about is like how would you communicate with that person? So if you wouldn’t say it to the person in a conversation like face to face then don’t write it. Like you know, you see these headlines and people go “cancer” question mark. If you’ve got cancer blah blah blah. And it’s like, would you say that to someone with cancer? Would you say that to a friend that’s got cancer. It’s like let’s think about how you would actually start a conversation with people. And I mean we’ve all got like, you know, these great beings, you can get copywriting templates and that on the, on the Internet and the kind of good luck to help you kick start some stuff. But I don’t believe in templates. Again, it gets back to that whole thing. If someone, you know what my drive and I depended on templates, then can I write copy, well, if you’re reliant on them, you can’t write copy. So I don’t use templates and plus my, my clients deserve fresh copy, not regurgitated, reconstituted crap from other people, you know? Right. So just with the authentic copy, just have an authentic conversation.

So what I would do and what a lot of my mentors have done is that I sit there and you know how you, you pick the one person you say, dear Jenny, I came across a thing that I really want and just write it out like a dirty first draft. Just write out a letter saying to them what this is? Why they need it? Any objections? And I know you’re probably sitting there thinking that, yeah, you’ve tried all these things before. Why would this work when everything else hasn’t worked? Well because this is backed up by science or this is blah, blah, blah. You know, that kind of stuff. The other things aren’t what they say that they are the ingredients. They say they’ve got this ingredient but they don’t have enough of that ingredient in it to make a difference kind of thing.

So that’s, that’s what you having the conversation, working at the objections that people come up with. One of the things that I came across when I was learning copy people… copywriters are so cheesy sometimes, they’ll say “but it’s not your fault”. I don’t use that because here’s the thing. It actually implies that somewhere someone has thought that it is their fault and up until then, and here’s the thing, when you’re writing authentic copy, think about the conversation that they’re having in their head. If they are like reading your letter or your copy and they haven’t thought that it’s their fault that you’ve just said, hey, it’s okay. It’s not your fault. They go, shit, I didn’t even seek it was my fault. Is it my fault? So you’ve actually planted the seed of doubt in their mind. So now they’re thinking about, is it, am I at fault here? And then not reading the rest of your copy. And that’s something that you want to do with your copies. You never want to let them go get off the page and go into a, into a thought or a thought stream of, um, you know, I’d like to, yeah, give them the picture that I want them to picture, not then go off in and create a difference.

Janet Beckers:                  The mind’s gone elsewhere. There’s one thing I just want to just backtrack, just to clarify for you, because we’ve talked about… well you’ve talked about templates and when it comes to templates, I always think of it, there’s like extremes I suppose. So there’s templates, which that’s how I started out. Like there was some software. Yeah, same. Yeah. It was like, okay, you know, you plug in, you know, it’ll ask you what’s the niche, you know, what’s the topic or what’s the… yeah. There were just really quite minor things that you had it in and then *beep sound*. He’s a salesman, so that’s the extreme. Yeah. Then you’ve got the other ones where it’s, okay, here’s the structure to follow and here are the bulk of the words already written. You’ve just got to personalize it somehow. Then you’ll have the next ones where it’s got well, okay, like it’s really pairing it down to you. Okay, well here’s a structure you need to follow because it needs to, you know, there’s no use telling what the solution is if you haven’t even addressed what the problem is or you know, you’ve got to say objections, but why would you have objections if you haven’t said this? So you’ve got the order that things happen or you’ve got the next level, which is stream of consciousness I suppose. So when you’re talking about not using templates at all, would you, is that talking about those first few ones where it’s got a lot of the words and it’s filling it in? Or do you also say, well, you don’t necessarily need to have a structure to just to…

Pauline Longdon:            You still need a structure and, so I’m saying that I don’t use templates, but I do use formulas.

Janet Beckers:                  That’s a good distinction.

Pauline Longdon:            Because formulas are applicable everywhere. And I mean, in life there are so many formulas, everything has got a formula to success. So the formula actually gives you the structure. So you know, like for writing copy, people would talk about problem, agitate, solve, you know, that’s a structure. And then you, you’ve got the, the formula around that. So you start out with the problem, then you agitate the problem and then you solve the problem. So one of my mentors, Tedd Nicholas, he put it in this kind of way. You give people a headache, you tell them that they’ve got a headache then you sell them the aspirin. It’s kind of like… but it’s not even that you give them the headache, you actually more or less know that they’ve got the headache, but they’re kind of putting it to the back of their mind. So you’re bringing that headache forward and saying “you’ve got a headache and this is what the headaches is doing. You haven’t got clarity..” and now here’s the solution.

The other one that you’ve got is, like, AIDA. So that’s Attention, Interest, Desire and then… whatever Action at the end. I mean, you can look on the internet, Google, I’m copywriting formulas and there’s like twenty hundred eleventy billion on there.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, and that’s where… because they all work. Like for me I got one that I use for absolutely everything. Yeah. My clients, like we’ve got to fit every single thing, cause there are so many formulas and they all work. This 7 step formula for absolutely everything from doing a 3 minute video to running a 3 day workshop to doing all the sales letter. It’s not that other ones don’t work, but I can’t remember that many.

Pauline Longdon:            But you know what you’re doing there though, and that’s fantastic that you do it. You’ve got A.) something that works for you, but B.) that gives you consistency and your voice, right?

It’s when people chop and change and try this one and this one and this one. And it’s like, you know, it’s, it’s like a dog’s breakfast, I call that franken-copy. And that’s why what I do with clients is I like to write the whole sales funnel from soup to nuts as the Americans would say, you know, from the Ad all the way through to the order form and that, because then it has the same marketing flow in the same voice and same everything. Whereas some people, you know, like we now hire a copywriter or get someone to write, they’ll go “I just need you to write these three pieces” or “Ah, you are too expensive so I’m going to get a cheaper copywriter on Fiverr” and so they splotch all these bits of copy together and then they go “Aw the copywriter sucked because nothing worked”.

It’s like, no. All the copy couldn’t work together because there was no flow. And you don’t have a consistent voice. Whereas Janet Beckers I know has a very consistent marketing voice and that’s important when you’re talking about your brand.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s great. So I love that idea of, you know, just start a comfort conversation, start writing and I love that if we get that, that that big tip is don’t write things that you wouldn’t say to people in person. Yeah. I mean that’s just really, that’s if you just keep, you keep that in your mind all the time. That is such a good tip in. So now let’s move on. So we’ve got some extra steps that you know for people to do authentically. So number one, just don’t go writing all that other stuff because it’s been proven to work in the past. What would you actually say? I love it.

Pauline Longdon:            Yeah. So the next one I would encourage people is not to worry about trying to impress your English teacher. So grammar does matter. But as a copywriter, we favor conversation over grammar. And the reason is that we know conversational copy works. So you know, your teacher would say to never start a sentence with “because” and “but”, and all these words. And in fact there are other copywriters out there that say, shall not use the word “that” well, I agree. Don’t use the word “that” all the time. But if you can write the word “that” in your copy and not remove it, then it’s meant to be there. So we talk about writing as you speak, but you know there is a limit to how many times you use the word “that” and you know it needs to come across as educated but not stifled. And that’s something like, cause you can get apps, and this is another good tip. You can get apps to check your writing. And I use Grammarly.

Janet Beckers:                  Oh yes, I’ve used that one as well.

Pauline Longdon:            And Hemingway and Hemingway has only got one “m” by the way. So people sometimes spell it wrong. So those apps are really good, but they can actually what I call new to your copy. So you’ve got this really powerful punchy copy. And then all of a sudden it’s like unnecessary ellipses, you know, the dot, dot, dot. And by the way, that’s a tip for young players. The ellipses are only ever three dots, not four, not two, not a hundred.

Janet Beckers:                  Yep, yep, I’m terrible at doing that one.

Pauline Longdon:            That’s a giveaway when people… you know that someone’s not really good at copy when they do more than three dots. The other thing is be conservative with your exclamation marks because that can actually make your copy come across very hype-y. And so with things like ellipses, with things like your exclamation marks and other things like even bolding certain things or italicizing bits of your copy, they often accentuate and to make things stand out. But if you use them everywhere, then nothing stands out. Use them sparingly.

Janet Beckers:                  I love it. They are really good tips cause I’ll see that all the time. People will try to make them sound themselves, sounds smarter, you know, going to take me seriously and by money if I don’t, you know, if I don’t sound educated and worthy of investing in where in fact it just makes you sound awkward.

Pauline Longdon:            You just reminded me of another tip. I wasn’t going to share this one, but you’ve just reminded, this is really worth it Janet. Write to a fifth grade level. So how do you find out what level you’re writing at? Well, I think Hemingway tells you, but also in Microsoft word, and I use Microsoft word all the time. I’m not a fan of Google docs because I don’t trust the cloud and other things. Anyway, I like to have my stuff where I can find it. So I use Microsoft word. And in Microsoft word, when you do your spellcheck, it will also ask if you want to do a grammar check and at the end it’ll come up with a table and it’s got like readability statistics and it’ll have like a Flesch Kincaid readability school, which is out of 100. So the closer to 100 you can get, the better. And it also has the grade level school and if you can get that, you know, around the fifth or sixth grade level, that’s great.

And also passive sentences, try to get them, you know, as close to zero as you can because passive sentences come across as weak. So you want to know what your readability is and that’s like, you know, all good copywriters need to know their readability stats.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, that is such a good tip! I’ve, I’ve never thought of using Microsoft word of doing that grammar check. That is, that is a great tip.

Pauline Longdon:            Because people talk about dumbing down your copy and I pushed back and resist it, that advice. Our readers are not dumb and a great copywriter said the consumer is not a moron, they’re your wife. And that was David Ogilvy who said that. So if you remember that, and that’s why I say write to someone that you love. You’re not going to treat your reader like a moron or an idiot. And so instead of dumbing your copy down, just simplify it. So if you can just say the same thing with a simpler word. Think like a 12 year old. Would a 12 year old understand the word “concept” or would using the word “idea” sound better? Just little differences and they make a big difference cause you know what? You know why it makes a difference is because people don’t have to think about words and then they don’t feel stupid if they don’t know what that word means.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, yeah. That’s, yeah, that’s brilliant. And it’s such a common mistake you’ve just given a whole wealth of like really simple, simple tips they have. Write all those down everybody, because they’re the things that is going to make it really easy for you. So when you’re actually… to have that extra check and to find the things that you can improve. So I think we’ve got enough time for one last quick one.

Pauline Longdon:            I was going to say, cause I really want to give this one. This one’s the one I wanted to give the whole show for. So we’ve spoken about writing in that… and writing is not without struggle. I’m not going to lie to anyone. You will struggle. So here’s my tip and this is what I give my students and people that I teach copy to. So just say you’ve got 60 minutes and you’re sitting, at the beginning of your 60 minutes you’re sitting there, you’re looking at the cursor blink or whatever and you’re thinking, man, what am I going to write about? So you’ve got a couple… It’s like sliding door moment. There are a number of different options open to you right then. You can sit there for 60 minutes and struggle and at the end of the 60 minutes you still got nothing on that page. Right? So that’s scenario number one.

Scenario number two is that you can sit there and force yourself to write some copy and just get it done. And option number three would be to get up, break your state, go for a walk. Or my favorite one is have a recalibration nap because my brain is a bit fried. So I’ll go and have a nap for 20 minutes but before I have a nap, I will put in my mind, okay, I need a headline and I need a lead or I need a big idea or I need something. But I put my subconscious mind on task and then I’ll go and have a nap and I set it to be like 20 minutes. I can guarantee you often I don’t last 20 minutes cause my mind after 10 minutes goes “got it!” So then what I do is I wake up and then I go up and I sit at my computer and I’m writing like a demon. I’m just like, I can barely type fast enough to keep up with my mind. So think about the three scenarios. Number one, you’ve got nothing to show at the end of it. Number two, you’ve got something to show at the end of it, but it’s forced and when you force writing, it turns out like crap and it reads like crap and it doesn’t connect. Option number three, you are refreshed and here’s the thing, in all three scenarios the same 60 minutes has passed.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, that’s brilliant. Normally the whole idea of this luxury of an afternoon nap, which by the way, like I am such a fan of like if I’ve got to have my afternoon now, um, is it’s just like a recalibration. Most people won’t do it. And I just think, oh look, that’s ridiculous. The indulgent, I’m not being productive. But that tiredness is such false productivity. So they go, Pauline has given you permission. Everybody you can have your afternoon nap. Yeah, that is brilliant. Like we were talking beforehand, the thing that I do is if I don’t have my nap, I have a painting, always a painting going and I paint circles. That’s my equivalent of the, you know, the 20 minute nap. It’s just that’s one thing that’s going to let your brain completely go blank. They are such brilliant tips. We’ve covered so much. We’ve gone from really, really great ways on how to get super clear on who you’re talking to and how to talk to them.

We’ve talked about how to get your mindset straight so that you can be writing. We’ve talked about how to, you know, really, um, you know, just write as if it was just you. Like, you know, how would you talk, don’t start trying to make things that sound clever, but they’re not you. Like you wouldn’t use, you know, stop trying to impress your English teacher and really valuable, really practical things that you can be doing right now that’s going to help you, you know, be like a pro and then that, you know, you’ve got that limited amount of time, you know, sharpen the sword. So get your, get your mind blank and then just get power in writing. I mean that’s, you know, just those big topics is go in there. So now for everybody that you know, for people who’d like to get to know you more Pauline, what’s the best way that they can do that.

Pauline Longdon:            They can go to my website. It’s thecopyalchemist.com and if they go to the thecopyalchemist.com/romance I have a portfolio. Also I send out what I call a weekly knowledge nugget and some… it’s like a newsletter it’s not actually an email. It’s a long newsletter and a lot of people have said it’s like a marketing seminar in an email. So I’d be happy if people want to check it out, they can subscribe. Stay as long as you want and then if you don’t get any benefit from it just unsubscribe. But it’s a good example of showing… Cause what I do is I start out with a story, and tie in a knowledge nugget, which is an actionable thing. And then I tell them, you know, how to implement it into their own life

Janet Beckers:                  That’s brilliant. I love it. And so, and if people, um, are wanting to work with you so they can come to you, you can be their copywriter. And so Pauline and I were talking about, she’s quite well known over in the United States, but not as much in Australia. And there is some intricacies in the language that are really important to make sure that you get right. So, you know, especially for my audience, I have somebody that is such an expert at doing copywriting and then also knowing that your, you know, you already write for the worldwide so people can come to you for copywriting and then also they can come to you if they wanting to be mentored to learn to write their own copy or write copy for others. Yeah, that’s brilliant. So I would love to hear from you.

When you’re listening to this, you know, what were your ah-ha’s? So one of the best feedbacks, you know, the best thing for Pauline and for I is we love hearing from you. So either wherever you’re listening to this podcast, you can either leave some of your feedback. If you’re on iTunes, I’d love it if you’d leave some feedback on the you know, as a review and just say like, what did you learn? Um, if it’s on the, on the podcast page, leave a comment or just come and find us over on social media. You’ll find us both there on all the different social media platforms. Drop us an email either way, but the best thing is just tell us what did you learn? And for me, what action did you take? So one of the things that I’ve got for you to help you to take action is we have a worksheet that goes exactly with this podcast to help you to take action on the things that Pauline has talked about today. So use that as the guide to go with this cause it’ll actually help you to take action this week and let us know what action you talk. And that would be totally awesome. Thank you so much for your time today, Pauline. I’m just so stoked we have finally got to you know, to really connect and to, um, for me to introduce you to everybody and thank you so much. Stick value. Yeah. Thank you. Happy to share. Okay. Bye everybody!

How To Think of Creative Marketing Ideas Even When You Feel Stuck

How To Think of Creative Marketing Ideas Even When You Feel Stuck

Can you relate to this?

You have a new product or service to launch, or even an old promotion you want to revamp, and you feel stuck. You just can’t think of any creative marketing ideas that will make you stand out from the crowd.

Don’t worry, you’re not alone.

If you’re like me, some days you’re on fire and you’re an Innovative, Think-Outside-The-Box, Creative Marketing Ideas DIVA!

Most days, you’re still staring at the screen, waiting for inspiration, an hour after you said to yourself “OK think of something creative!”

It was during one of my “DIVA” moments I developed a simple strategy I can use every single time I’m stuck in “non-superhero-Janet” mode to quickly tap into creativity. I’ve been using it for years in my own business and with my clients and it works every time.

In today’s short masterclass podcast episode:

  • I teach you this deceptively simple strategy I call The 4th Win Test. 
  • I show you EXACTLY How and when to use it and I have even created a downloadable cheat sheet so you can follow the process every time  you have a new promotion, new product, services or joint ventures.
  • I also give you 3 different examples of how I have applied the 4th Win Test to projects I am working on RIGHT NOW. I find the concept so much easier to use after hearing real-life examples.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

Click the image below to download the BONUS worksheet!

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d love for you to take a quick minute to share your thoughts with us and leave an honest review and rating for the show over on iTunes!

Read The Transcript Here

Hello and welcome! Janet Beckers here. I’ve got a special episode for you today of Romance Your Tribe Radio. Get out your note taking material because today is a step-by-step masterclass on using the fourth win test in all of your marketing material. Now, what on earth is the fourth win test and why would you use it? So before I dive into what the fourth win test is, why would you use this? And to do this, I’ll explain to you how I first developed this idea so you can see why it’s important to use. You see my second core business that I had run, Wonderful Web Women, which is the precursor to Romance Your Tribe. It was when I finally thought, you know what? I tried doing everything the way that… Just following the books. But you know what it’s very hard to stand out from everybody because I’m doing the same things as everybody else, but you don’t want to just be a rebel for a rebel’s sake.

So that’s when I thought, okay, everybody talks about a win-win. What can I do when it comes to my marketing? To get not just a win, win, win, but what can I do to get a fourth win? What can I do that is going to make me really think outside the box and see if I can take any of my marketing efforts, any of my program creation efforts to the next level simply by having an exercise that makes me think outside the square. That’s what I did when I launched Wonderful Web Women. And the way that I then approached my marketing meant it took off really, really fast. Were talking going from having nobody on my mailing list to a list of thousands in less than eight weeks, to winning awards for Australian marketer of the year. Basically, based on what I’m going to be teaching you today. The things that I did were different to what everybody else was doing, but not radically so, but enough that it caught people’s attention and it still continues to do that.

So that’s what I’m going to be teaching you today. This simple simple exercise that you can be using today that is gonna make you think outside the square and make it so that you can come up with that little tweak, a different way of doing things. That means that you are going to stand out from the crowd. Sound good? So that’s what we’re going to do today. So I’m going to introduce you to the concept of the fourth win test. It’s very, very simple for you to understand and then to make it very easy for you to then see, well how do I apply it? I’m going to run you through three examples that I am doing right now in my business so you can see how does it work. So how does that sound? So first of all, what is the fourth win test?

So when it comes to any kind of marketing or creating a new program, doing even something like running a podcast like I am now, I want you to think about, first of all, who are the main parties that are involved? So it’s very, obviously it’s going to be you, but if there is you, what else can you be doing? Is there another party? Well of course there’s going to be, if you’re marketing something there’s going to be the people who are going to be buying whatever it is. But are there other different groups, you know, people that… Not just that could be involved, but what can you do to give them a huge benefit? It may be people who never buy your program. What can you be doing? It may be people who… There could be some sort of joint venture partners that you could get involved.

Whatever groups you’ve got, I want you to think about the next level of what sort of win is there. Who are the different parties so that it’s not just you and one other person winning. What can you be doing now? It’s not difficult to get to the third one. And you’ll see when I go through, it’s through examples. It can be quite difficult to come up with the fourth. But when you do, then quite often you can come up with a fifth and the sixth and every time you do that it gets more and more creative and much more exciting. So let me run you through examples cause that is the best way that I can teach you. So let’s just start with this podcast. So I’ve got some notes here so I could work out those different groups for you. So these are, these are the ones that are going to be very, very typical for any podcast that you are doing when you’re interviewing people.

So one of those is okay, what is in it for me? Right? So for me, this is a way of me being able to continually give great content to people who are already existing customers and to new people so that they get to see what I stand for. They get to know that I know my stuff and it means that they’re more likely to become clients. And when they do show an interest in buying, it’s going to be a really easy sale. So for me, that is the benefit. And there’s lots of other benefits that come from that as well. I get to have great contacts from the people who I interview and a lot of those go on to do other, um, you know, promotions and things with me. So that is me. That’s an obvious one. The number, the next one that you’ve got is, well, what about, um, the people who aren’t the interviewing?

Of course, you know, I could be doing a podcast where nobody is getting interviewed. That’s what I’m doing right now. And I alternate with my guest and then me teaching. Now for the guest, well we’ve got to think about what’s in it for them. That’s why every time before I start an interview with somebody, we spend some time beforehand. And my first question to them is, what’s gonna be the best thing for you to get out of this? What do you want? Are you wanting to get new leads? Have you got a promotion coming up, a book coming up? What is the best thing that you can do? What do you want to be known for? How can I help you? So that’s what I’m also approaching. So I want to get great content, but I want to know what am I doing to make this a true win for you?

That’s number two. These are pretty obvious ones. The next one of course is the listeners. I want to be thinking, right, well, you know anybody that comes and listens to this, it’s not going to be waffle. I want to make sure that people are getting really, really good value. I want to be able to say, I could sell this content and people would pay for it. I want it to be that good. So for those people, that’s the third when I’m making sure that the content is actionable. That’s why I always have a focus on what are the action steps that you can take this week. So that is from me deciding what’s in it for them. What makes it different is it got to be about action because that is really important for me to help people to get stuff done. Then the fourth one is now you can start thinking a little bit creatively.

So when I think about all of these relationships, what are other potential relationships here that I could be thinking about? What can I be doing for these people? Some of these might be the person who I’m interviewing their clients or it might be um, other, other people who I know, but I really obvious one to think about is what about my existing clients? Is there something that I can be doing that’s going to help them? And of course, making sure that it is a win win all around. And so you may have noticed that I have recently started to profile some of my own clients on these interviews. Now, it doesn’t mean that simply by enrolling in one of my programs, even in one of my VIP programs, that you are guaranteed of a expert spot, that’s not going to happen because I need to make sure that it’s also going to be giving benefit to the people who listen to me.

And people listened to this podcast. So of course they’re interested in certain topics. They want to grow their business. Um, so if I have a guest that has something that’s not of interest to my target market, well they can’t be a guest. Um, and also they have to have done the work, you know, they have to have got results. So that’s the next thing that goes. So there, it’s not a given that every single person is. But for the people who taking action, getting results, if we can have a story that is going to benefit the listeners who are turning up because they, they’re looking for specific things and it’s going to benefit me, well that is fantastic. So, um, sometimes that focus may be on what they have done in their business as a result of working with me. And it’s not all about me, it’s about them.

Because honestly, you know, they’re the people doing the work. It’s their, their results. I’m the guide and helping. So that could be the story or it could be that their particular topic is absolutely perfect for my clients, for my listeners. So in that case, they get to, um, you know, we talk more about what it is that they do. So that is just a simple way where I can be thinking, what is a fourth group? What can I be doing that’s going to be helping my clients? And it also becomes a bit of an aspirational milestone for people that, you know what, if you take action with what I’m doing and you get the results, if you stick with it and you get the results, I’m going to love having you on my podcast. So it’s something for people to work towards as well.

So that is a fourth win. So that is one example. Now, let me share another one with you and I will just have this here. Okay. So, um, at the time of me recording this, I’m in the middle of putting together a brand new program that I am, that I know that people are needing because it’s something that I’ve already been helping clients with and there’s a gap that I’ve got an area where I’m going, you know what? I get to people to this particular point. And unless they’re one of my VIP clients, I can’t help them any further. So I want to be able to help them. So I have started putting together a program that I’m going to be launching. Um, you know it within, it’s going to be within this quarter and it’s going to be called the Attract Your Tribe Academy. Now, just a little bit of a, so you know what’s coming up now at the time as I’m doing this, there’s two things that I’m doing.

Number one is I’m organizing actually creating the offer. What is it that I’m going to be doing? What am I going to be giving people? How am I going to be helping them? There’s that part of it. And then there’s another part where I’m thinking, okay, well I’ve got to announce this to the world. What am I going to set up to promote it? So for both of these, I’ve challenged myself to come up with a fourth win test. So with these, with the academy is we have, I have a lot of really good training material templates, all of these sorts of things. And I also have my input that I’m going to be giving people so people can get some access to me to help them. But I thought, you know what, the thing that’s really going to help my members a lot is there are people who are experts who are great at the things that they do, that it’s not my expertise.

You know, I’m, I don’t have to be an expert in everything. There are other people in particular topics that that’s all they do when they’re super good at it. So if I can bring in somebody else who’s going to be providing content, um, and some sort of teaching, well that is going to be a win for me because I can give greater content, greater results. And it’s a win for the members. That is a really good thing. So then the next thing to think about is of course, well there’s the third group is who is, you know, Mike is the expert. What can I be doing with them? So for each of them I’ve said to them, you know what? I want to know what’s going to be a great win for you. What do you want to get out of that? And then with them, I’ve also challenged them around the fourth win.

So for most of these it’s going to be, you know what, let’s create some content together that’s going to really help people. And for them, usually it is going to be, you know what, Janet, my ideal clients are also the kind of people attracted to this program. So I know that if I can show them how great I am at what I do, then some of those will become my clients or they will refer other people to me. So now getting that opportunity to be able to build that trust is a really good opportunity for people. That is one part of it. And there’s other little things that for some people we’ve kind of worked out that are things that are really going to help them as well. Um, now the other thing I thought was, okay, are there any other relationships as part of this?

Is there something else here that we can do now with some of these people that I have been talking to, it actually comes down to their clients. Now you might think, well, how do you make it so that them getting involved in my, uh, membership? How is it going to help their clients? So then we can think about it in those ways. Some of those ways may be we have a special deal just for their clients. Another great way, and this has been coming up with two of these people, is they actually have a program where they are training other people to have the same level of expertise as them. They are training people to build a business on their expertise. The thing that they master in this and, and each of these is to do with copywriting or generating traffic, those sorts of things.

So they’re… people who they know know their stuff and they’re going to be looking for clients. What if we can find a way to make it so that we can actually match people together? And how about if we can do it in a way where it’s going to be a really good deal for my members and a fantastic opportunity for these other people? What can we do there? So that’s just an example that I’ve got at the moment on creating a program and with every single person that I’m inviting onto the faculty, cause they’re all handpicked as I’m going through them personally going, yeah let’s work out a win. Like what’s really in it for you? And let’s see if there is a fourth party and what can we do for there. And so it’s really nice way of building up that creativity in us thinking outside the square.

Now when it comes to the promotion and getting the message out there, I’ve also been thinking about that as well, about what can I be doing that there are different groups. So there are a few things here that I’ve come up with. So here are just the first four groups, and this is one I know that I’m going to be coming up with more of these as well, is I thought, well what can I be creating that I have got that’s really going to help brand new clients that come into this membership they already have? Like it’s awesome. You know, all these things that are basically done for you and all these worksheets that you just go through and it’s going to simplify things for you. There’s lots of, and plus lots of, you know, accountability done for you, done with you.

Like you know, let’s get stuff done. There’s all of that. But I thought, what else can I do that’s going to make it really, really simple for people. And one of those is I thought, you know what? I’m going to create success maps so people know exactly what order, what resource to spend time on depending on what stage they’re at in their business online. So that for some people they’ll all be going through the same process. But for some people I can say, I just want you to do the bare minimum of this and you can skip this one and you’ve got to spend as long as you can until you’ve nailed this one. But somebody at a different level of business is going to be doing it differently. So success maps so that people can even streamline even faster. It could be that they’re coming in and there’s only really one main thing that they need to know.

They will be able to tell from the success map, there, there, there, that’s it. This is the thing that I need to focus on. Oh, I didn’t think that that there was important, but Janet just pointed out it has to be done. So that will really help people as an extra tool. So then I thought, okay, so that’s an extra thing that’s really gonna help the clients. This is as part of the promotion, so this is something that they will get. Now, what else can I be doing? Well, I know that there’s going to be helping me because it’s going to help me to get my clients even faster results, which means that they will stay, they’ll stay being clients with me. That’s why I do get good retention rates because I focus on what’s gonna get them so that they will get better results.

So then another one to think about is, all right, well what about people who don’t even become customers? You know, what can I be doing that’s going to make it a win for them? So that’s got me thinking, all right, so these success maps that I’m putting together for my clients, can I create a version that shows them, you know, here’s how you can make your decisions and whether you come to me to be able to master those particular parts and get the extra templates to make it fast. Or if you think you can do it on your own, either way, you’ve got a version of the success map that means it’ll tell you what you need to do. So then that becomes something that is a great benefit to help people. So it’s not just going to be buy this, buy this, buy this. It’ll be okay, work out your path. Do you want my help? Yeah. So that’s one of those tools.

Now the next one that I can think about then is, well, what about my existing clients? What can I be doing as part of the promotion that’s going to help them? So there’s a few ways you can do this. One will be a special, a special offer for existing clients. You know, you, I like to reward loyalty. So there’s a special offer for those. But even more, if people are taking action with what you do, tell their story, give them an opportunity to tell their story. And so ask them what is it that’s going to be able to, part of what parts of your story do we want to focus on. So it’s not just a matter of a testimonial, I got results. It’s about what’s going to help you to grow your business.

So what part of your story will we focus on? Because they you at the moment looking for new clients, new leads. Are you looking to get joint venture partners? Are you looking to um, be known, you know, and to to be a podcast guest for example. Less focus on what it is that you want. And let’s share that part of your story. This can all happen as part of a promotion as part of a launch. So I’ve just given you their three examples that you can be watching as I do this because they’re actually happening right now in my business. So, you know, peak behind the curtains that you can see. So this is a process that I’m using myself at the moment and I’m having very transparent conversations with people saying to them, okay well what is in it for you? What’s the best thing that you can get out of this?

And can we think of another group? Lets just between us really creatively see if we can brainstorm and come up with a fourth win, we can do it. So that’s now over to you is now I’ve got a special worksheet for you that you can download. I’m, this is my new thing that I’m trialing at the moment in with the podcasts is and is to give you some kind of action worksheet that you can use every single podcast episode because I really want you to take action. So if you, uh, if you’re on iTunes and you’re just listening to this, come over to the podcast page and you will see there, apart from, you can watch the video and the transcript is there and the show, but you can also download the worksheet so that you can use this all the time as a prompt for every time you do any kind of promotion in your business that can help walk you through the fourth win test.

Okay. I would love to hear from you, is this something that you’ve learned from me previously? If you’ve been one of my clients, have you used this and I’d love to see examples of what did you come up with when you went looking for the fourth, when is this new to you? I would love to hear how you’re thinking of using it and any aha’s that you had. Now you can do that by dropping me an email. You can leave a comment on the podcast page. I would love it if you would leave a really honest review for me over on iTunes cause that will help other people to be able to discover this. I’d really appreciate if you’d do that, and that might be just sharing what you’ve learned on this particular podcast would be great. I’m so please do that. And, um, most importantly, my challenge to you is to take action this week. So download that worksheet that I’ve got for you. And think about either something you’ve got coming up or something you’ve already been doing that you might be able to add that creative twist to simply by applying at the fourth win test. That’s my challenge to you. What can you do to add your own flavor and, you know, increase your impact, amplify the impact you’ll have through everything that you’re doing. That’d be great. Okay, go get them folks. Bye.