The 5 Connector Styles of Content Marketers

The 5 Connector Styles of Content Marketers

When you are in the business of transforming the lives of your clients, it is your expertise and unique ideas that influence if they see you as the Tribal Business Leader they want to work with. That’s why content marketing, in a way that truly builds connection, is such an important part of your brand building and sales processes.

Today I introduce you to Emma Franklin Bell, a brilliant woman who has been part of my Attract Your Tribe Accelerator program for the past 6 months. Emma has developed a very unique framework  to help you consistently amplify your authentic voice through whatever medium you’re using (which could be written, audio or video).

We dive into the 5  different connection styles of communicators and how to build on your unique strengths to create truly powerful content. 

We also dive into the mindset of what it takes to be the person that really stands out and builds a business that positions them as the leader in their field. We break those down and then show you how to adopt those characteristics into your own business practice so you have the discipline to consistency create great content that builds on the strengths of your connection style.

Plus, we talk about ballet 🙂

Here’s what you’ll discover today:

  • How the mass market is not important now and the role of connection in our economy
  • Emma shares how she learnt communication through dance and how that relates to communication in business
  • I share the common characteristics I’ve observed in the clients who get the fastest results and then break this down, demonstrating how Emma’s story is a perfect example.
  • Emma shares the distilling of her message while working with me in the Attract Your Tribe Accelerator program that changed her platform to one of thought leadership, instead of “how to”. 
  • The importance of discipline as a content marketer. You can’t disappear for months! I have a bonus podcast action guide for you to help you with this
  • How to choose which media type is best for you from  audio, video, books, podcasts and writing.
  • The 5 connection styles for communicating with content and the strengths (and problems) each type has when creating content.
  • You can take this quick quiz to determine your connection style.

Plus action steps you can take THIS WEEK to create a  content marketing plan that builds on the strengths of your connection style.


Plus a special podcast bonus for you today. An action guide to download  “The Disciplined Content Marketer’s Mindset Action Guide”.


You can check out the brilliant free Connector Style Quiz.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

Click the image below to download the BONUS worksheet!

Emma’s Bio

Emma Franklin Bell is a writer and communications expert. She is passionate about helping women increase their visibility, amplify their message and step into leadership.

As a podcaster, Emma has interviewed over 100 entrepreneurs from all around the globe.

As a featured guest she has appeared on numerous shows including The Mark Bouris Show, Should I Start A Podcast with Ronsley Vaz and Women, Leadership & Work with Megan Dalla-Camina.

Emma is the author of 3 books and has also written and spoken for Leadership HQ Magazine, Wellness Hubs and Business in Heels.

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d love for you to take a quick minute to share your thoughts with us and leave an honest review and rating for the show over on iTunes!

Read The Transcript Here

Janet Beckers:          Hello and welcome everybody. Janet Beckers here and I’m really excited to welcome you to introduce you to my wonderful friend and guest here, Emma Franklin Bell. Hi Emma!

Emma Franklin:         Hi Janet. So great to be here. Really looking forward to the conversation.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah, me too. Me Too. We’ve got some really fantastic, really practical steps for you to take today, everybody that’s listening. So, and we’re going to be sort of breaking this into two parts. One which is going to be out, get at pens and start writing. We’re going to be talking about content, creating content and getting it out there to represent your brand in a really unique way that Emma has developed to help you to be able to really consistently get your authentic voice through whatever medium you’re using. So I’m really excited to spend some time diving into these different connection styles. So we’re going to spend some time doing that, but we’re also going to dive into the mindset of what it takes to be the person that really stands out and builds a business. And because Emma has some wonderful characteristics that I would love you to be able to do, I just want to bottle it up and we can have essence of Emma that we, that you know, that I could give to you so that you can really model these characteristics. So without being able to bottle up Emma, we’re going to dive into those unique things that you can be modeling yourself. So we’re going to split it into two. What does it take to do it and then how do you get your, your message out there?

Emma Franklin:         So sounds good.

Janet Beckers:          Very exciting, very exciting. So just start with tell us who, who is it that you help and how do you do that?

Emma Franklin:         I help women who are generally in the businesses that help transform lives and change lives. So that’s coaches, healers, therapists, practitioners. So the spaced women and I help them to unlock their signature ideas and then amplify that. So, and using, you know, mediums that are online that we know about, like video and audio and interviews and written word and book writing. So anything that is going to yes, take the, take the magic out and then amplify it out to those people who need it. That’s what’s most important. Not not to everybody, but to the people that need to have those messages land for them. So, so that’s the work that I do with women and it’s incredibly fulfilling work.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. And I love how you just said, take that magic out and amplify it. That is such a beautiful way of putting that. And I love how you’re really specialized in getting the message, you know, the way that people communicate content of getting it out there. Because that’s the thing is there’s so many people, you know, we work with very, very similar people and there are so many people who are absolutely brilliant at what they do, really, really good, but they can’t communicate it properly. So nobody [inaudible]

Emma Franklin:         Yeah. That’s right. And so what I’ve found is that, yeah, the, the magic and the message is, is it’s one thing, but then you can have people who have already discovered that they know what they want to say. And it’s the, the process of how can I say it? How can I communicate that? And I mean it was Seth Godin who a few years ago coined the term the connection economy and he talked about certain things, you know, all sorts of things to do with that. But he talks about how, you know, that media is now optional. You know, people can choose what they’re going to look at. Is it video? Is it podcasts? They’ve got… It’s not like the old days where everybody had the TV and you were kind of locked in to whatever channel. So it’s incredibly optional. It’s curated. And also the fact in terms of connection, like I said, about appealing to the people who need your work now it is about the fact that the mass market, he also said the mass market is no longer important.

You know, what is important is, he said, getting to the edges, getting to the edges of what’s important. And then he also said that it’s work that matters. So it needs to be, you know, not content for content’s sake. That it needs to be what, what matters. And, you know, that needs to be obviously what matters to you, but also what, so that it’s so that it’s powerful and it pulls you forward on purpose, but also that it matters to the people that you’re, that you’re working with to help and transform them.

Janet Beckers:          Oh, I love it. That was so beautifully said. I mean just Seth’s work. Um, you know, I, I’m, I’ve incorporated quite a bit of his work too, cause he’s done a lot of work on tribes is that I love the way that he can sort of, you know, really create that language around that as well, which is brilliant. So that’s really, really good points that you know you’re not just being limited to the one medium now. So it’s around that connection to the right people. So. Perfect. Yes. So before we dive into how people can connect and how can they be doing it authentically. I want to just dive in a little bit into what, well, why are you doing what you’re doing now? Like what is, what’s your backstory that means you can say with total confidence, you know what, I can help you do this and I can help you get results. So just give us a little bit of a background on you and business and how, why you’re actually doing this and why doing it now.

Emma Franklin:         Sure. I suppose I’ve been connecting with audiences since I was seven and since I first decided that performance based stuff and performing arts was what I wanted to do. And then after I did my training, which we might touch on, I then opened studios. So in performing arts, in ballet. So the, the, the whole area of being able to connect with, connect with the students, connect with the teachers, connect with the parents, connect with, you know, new potential you’ve got, when you’re managing a a studio. And this can go for any studio. Cause I’ve worked with, you know, martial arts studios and yoga studios, different studio types. You, especially with a children’s based studios, you, you talking to two target markets, of course, you know, minors and you’re also talking to their parents. So, and then you’re managing the expectations of them and the teachers.

So the whole area, all of communication. And then that was what I did my degree in because I think communication has always been this fascinating piece to me. It’s, it’s the, it’s the glue. It really sits at the core of everything. Because if you can connect and communicate to any of your publics and you can then share whatever it is you’re doing, whether you’re doing the ballet classes or whether your you know, talking about the latest research in some medical thing. Yeah. It’s the communication that you need to be, that you need to be utilizing. And so how you’re doing that, how you’re connecting with people, you know, how you’re illustrating it. And so, yeah, whether it was, you know, in practical terms, connecting with an audience and having that in intensity of holding an audience in that way or running studios and connecting with people day to day on practical levels, you know, hundreds of people coming through the studio every week that you’re dealing with. Yeah, this, this whole pace. And also when you’re running studios like that, um, where it can be quite intense, you, you know, and people have their, have their, they’re very emotional in, in children’s based work. So you are managing a lot of emotions. And, and you have to be very nuanced and very, um, you know, careful with how you, and insensitive to people. So it’s just always been a fascinating art to me is community connection piece

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. I love it. And it’s, that’s actually been one of the lovely things that I’ve, in the last few months because I’m Emma and I’ve been, you know, Emma’s been working with me in the accelerator program to go, you know what, I’m ready to level it up to the next, I’m ready to take it to the next level. So let’s, let’s really work on what those core things are that that is so unique to your story that other people don’t have. And that was, and it’s been lovely really seeing you own that. You know what, I totally, this connection, this communication, I had been doing it all my life and it’s been really lovely to see you, you know, you’ve always done it, but to totally own it as you know, what this is mine and then create your own language, your own systems, everything very, very quickly around that.

Not because you are, you know, you’re walking… a real example of that, you know, of walking and talking the connection in everything that you’re doing in your life. So now one of the things that I really wanted to be able to bottle up to be able to, you know, this is the essence of Emma that I want people to be able to see is one of the things I’ve really come to notice after having worked now personally with hundreds of people in a close environment and thousands mentoring and coaching people in bigger programs, is there’s certain characteristics to the people who have the grit to keep on going to just you know, keep on turning up, keep them working towards it that get that success. And you, Emma, I’ve recognized this in you right from the beginning of, you know, just getting on, just doing the work, not knocking back.

And one of those things I’ve really noticed is if you’ve got some kind of discipline that you have had to master in your personal life, whether it is as we were talking earlier, whether it might be around learning a musical instrument but aiming for [inaudible] or very often I’m seeing it as in people who have done some kind of sports where whether they’ve been there even if they’re not competing professionally, they are approaching it with the discipline as somebody who wants to get really, really good at what they’re doing and I’m really into, I love it when I talk to somebody and they’ll show me that they’ve got a background to do with some kind of sport and some kind of expertise in that because I know that they are going to have certain mental characteristics that make you unstoppable in business. So I’d like to just dive into those a little bit before we dive into the content of around connections because I think this is going to be one of those things that means that the people who when they are going out and connecting that they can really keep that presence up, that they can continue to communicate as well.

So one of those, we were talking about this just before we before we hit record. And so I thought it would be really interesting if we just talk about your background as a performer and the discipline that you had to learn. Let’s have a look at, first of all, what is it that you learned from those, that time in your life, the things that you learnt that you can see now that you implement in your day to day business?

Emma Franklin:         Yeah. Well thanks. Thanks to that Janet and thanks for also reminding me that I you know came up with the distilled concept, you know, about this connection stuff while working with you. And that’s absolutely true. I think sometimes when you work with mentors, they’re able to pull out sort of treasures from you that you, that you didn’t quite see. So what I was doing, the stuff that then this, you’ve helped me draw, draw it out and be more distinctive with it. So that’s really good. But when we, yeah, so, so to the mindsets, I think what was really interesting for me was that yeah, at seven which was quite late actually when it comes to dance, I was, you know, dancing around the lounge room and then mom was over me kicking things.

So she took me to lessons and you know, very quickly I excelled and it was that, you know, you needed to be to doing exams and state and training 25 hours a week and having private lessons in the morning before school at 6:30 AM. And I think as a youngster I just sorta, I went with it. I loved the dance and I loved the progress and I loved what I was doing. And, teachers were in the 90s, quite strict and, you know, yeah. And you know, things have changed to be in the industry now, but, you know, the, the old days, you know, there were quite, quite straight, you know, so, so I think it was also a, whenever you had a coach to use you, the coaching kind of mentality was that you wanted to, I’m not disappoint, you’re coach and yeah.

And so there was an, especially as a young person, United States and nine, 10, 12, 13, etc, you, um, you are really, really locked into the connection that you have with that coach. And, and they develop you in the bond is very strong. So, so you’ll always remember these, these key figures that sort of peppered through your career. And, so those foundations were sort of the mindset foundations were laid down without me really choosing to do that. I, and you would say many kids as you get older who would drop out for other reasons, for certain reasons. But, um, I think yes, if it appealed to you, the, these mindsets of delayed gratification, teamwork, discipline, um, you’re only as good as your last performance, the personal best over, um, competing really with others. The others sort of raise the, raise the bar so you, so you will always be seeing what peers arrival to achieve.

But then it always comes back to the focus of, well, you know you know, can I perfect that turn or can I perfect that or best small or whatever. And so, and then because I was a, um, a Stedford student, I was there for performing, you know, every, every few weeks, all around New South Wales. And, I think that was, I mean that was really, really good to get over things like stage fright. It was kind of exposure therapy, you know. So if you had any of those things, you, you would just kind of, you just did it. You just moved through and, and you just did it. And I mean, I enjoyed it. If I, if I didn’t enjoy it and love it, then mom would have said, do you want to do this anymore? Cause she was not a stage mom.

She didn’t even bond already thing. She wasn’t like that at all. And so it was always driven by me. It was always driven by my own, you know, and I want to do it. So, so I think, yeah, I think those disciplines where those core sort of old school sort of, you know, strong strident, bold, sort of disciplines that were just, that were expected in your mindset. And then I think he then carried those out and I taught for five years, so they know I carried those into my students. I mean I carried them into business and I still continue with those today and I think we gain, it’s like a manifesto. You don’t really realize you’re doing it. But yes, other people who I’ve met who have done sport or dance the same level, they had similar mindsets. Um, and I think that the, yes, the resilience, the long game thinking, the personal best idea. Um, realizing sort of the hellistic stuff that the hurdles someone said to me once that, you know, uh, um, you know, a step back or a set back is like you do two step forward, one back. Yes. And she said, you know, I just see that as a cha-cha and I thought, Oh yes. So it’s kind of, you know, cause it’s almost like, you know, you, you, you will have those hurdles. You know, you, you will have like things that you experiment with all the time. That won’t, that won’t work. And then yes, somehow it’s the resilience of the mindset that that pulls you forward, which must say that there’s an overriding passion or as people called purpose or why that, that maybe is stronger. Because what’s funny is you don’t think about giving up you have evolves that you don’t, it must be like if you have a really great strong marriage that you’ve been in for 40 years, the, the fights that you have doesn’t mean that you leave the marriage. There’s something stronger that, that leads people forward. So I think it’s similar.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. Well, I’ve actually got some tips for people who they’re thinking about how do I actually do that if I haven’t had that background because that’s one thing that as an example so people can see what does it look like in action. I know when we were you know, for the last few months, cause Emma’s just been, you know, you know, this is the next, this is the task and then this is the result that I’ve got. Now. One of those was, okay, well I think I may, you know, this may be my focus, you know, I met for doing it. You did a survey that was a particular niche and you know, and so you did it beautifully, and I did exact, you know, the survey perfectly. You followed up with a training Webinar to really say how it went. After all of that work and the investment of time and money at the end of it, you wait, you know what?

I actually don’t think this is going to work. They’re not really invested enough. Yes. You know, this is what it’s going to be a little bit hard. Now. I know just from experience of working with so many people that for a lot of people that would have gutted their confidence, a lot, and it would’ve been very difficult. That would have had to really draw on a lot of resources, internal resources to be – had the confidence in themselves again to go out and start again. Whereas you just sort of took a blow when hi, I’m so disappointed about that. But you know, okay. But that’s all right. I’ve learned from that. This is the next step. Like that doesn’t mean that you don’t go, oh, oh yeah. And totally frustrating

Emma Franklin:         and you have a crap day you might say on, you know, I’m not, I can’t be bothered today with any of this. I’m just going to go to the beach or something. I think you have to I mean, I’m very about the self care and I talk to my clients about all the self care stuff because I think you do have to acknowledge, you know, you do have to acknowledge, um, that it’s not all sunshine and roses. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s kind of the Jack in the box thing, isn’t it? It’s the Jack in the box that nick the next day you just go through you places again.

Janet Beckers:          Absolutely you just get up and do it. And yet the people who are thinking, well that’s great in those Emma’s had that, you know, from quite young. And I am, I have been noticing with quite a few of my clients, the ones that, you know, every client has the potential to really create what they’re going to do. Just some people can do it fast and other people will take longer. And it’s, and it’s very often it’s that, that grit, that ability to take the knock and get back up with confidence and keep the momentum going is the big difference.

And so a few years ago, I can remember at Tiff if you’re listening to this, hello, Tiff, Tiff was one of my clients a few years ago who was an athlete and I was saying to her, tiff, I just want to bottle up this grit, you know, this resilience that you’ve got. Um, and I know that it comes from you haven’t been an athlete for so many years. And so we used to joke when I would say to her, I’m an athlete too, and I wasn’t, you know, but I thought, you know what? So for people who were thinking, can you do this? I decided after with tiff and certificate, I’ll have to let TIF know that I’ve mentioned her a few times. Tiffany Michael, awesome woman is I thought, you know what, I’m going to see if I can start to, even though I’ve got a lot of that already, I’m going to see if I can actually make this a default by channeling what I’m recognizing and other people who have been brought up in that way.

And so the challenge to you is to choose one thing, whether it’s going to be walking, running, swimming, whatever it is. It could be an instrument, it could be art, it could be a particular hobby. It doesn’t matter what’s important. Is that something that you want to get good at and then choose to just start off small. But it’s the discipline of going. For example, I decided I was going to get good at swimming, found a group of friends, they get up at 5:00 AM like to meet. So you know, that was the big thing. So can I do that once a week? Can I do it twice a week? Just starting those little tiny things and every time you do it, you just recognize what you were doing and tell yourself, you know what, I resilient, I have got the discipline and every single time you were doing that, starting off that small. And then when you do have the times when you don’t get up, recognize that, you know what, I didn’t demonstrate that, um, particular discipline or, or doing what I said I’m going to do. And incremental growth. I think what’s really interesting there that you mentioned is, is the incremental

Emma Franklin:         growth. You don’t go from nothing to, okay, I’m going to do five days a week at 5:00 AM. Yeah, in my view you could do it. But I think it’s hard to sustain it. You know, you might be able to do that for a month, but it’s the sustaining a longterm. So I always talk about, you know, with, with clients, especially if they’re wanting to write a book or something and they’re not going to do a, a sort of a hot house way of doing it. They want to just do it over the next six months or something. It’s the incremental growth. So if you sit down and say, okay, you’ve got to write 5,000 words, it won’t work that you can do, you know, a hundred words and then 200 and 300 and it, and it builds up. So I think, yeah, with any disciplinary practice, the [inaudible] going to take you on and make sure you enjoy it, make sure it’s something that’s fun for. But then just do it once a week and they maybe do it twice a week.

Janet Beckers:          Now it’s every single day. It’s all the swimming will running with gym or training for something else and or art and art, the whole lot. It does. It’s incremental. It becomes normal. Now the reason why I want to make this and we’ll move over to the next topic now to segway. The reason I want to make sure this is Emma’s specialty is helping you to get your message out. The connecting through content, through communication, that takes a level of discipline. Because you want to have consistency. You want to be not just, hey, here I am. And then they go, where did she go? Like there was somebody who I really connected with six months ago, but I haven’t seen anything since then. You’re going to have to have that discipline to be able to implement and to be able to approach it in a way of can I be a better connector?

Can I communicate better? So that’s why I wanted to take that time talking about this puzzle. So it’s just so wonderful for you to get an you just for you to be able to see those little nuances in a mindset that can really make the difference for you to be able to create success in your business. So now I’ll move over. Now first of all, let’s just get clear on the different connection mediums. So what are the ways that people can connect when we’re talking about people who are in a business with, they helped create transformation for people. So yes, medium, what sort of medium do you help people wait and what are the ones that people can be using?

Emma Franklin:         So the medians that you’ll probably see everywhere, um, are the, are the channels that you would have heard of, you know, so when it comes to audio, you know, it’s podcasting, it’s MP3s. It’s anything to do with the audio, the, when it’s video, it can be live, it can be Webinar, it can be prerecorded, anything like that. And then you’ve got a written word, like you’ve got blogging, you’ve got articles. If you want to go further than that, you’ve got books. You’ve then got, you know, all the stuff to do with social media, all your, all your daily work, your daily posts and those sorts of things. All to do with social. So you’ve got these different mediums. But what intimidates people quite a bit is, you know, A. Do I need to be doing all of it? And B. I don’t really feel natural. I don’t really feel like me. I don’t really feel confident to just rock up there and, um, be doing what they’ve told me to do. You know, you’ve just got to get on a Facebook live or you’ve got to start a podcast or you’ve got to write, you know a top 10 tips blog or something.

So I think in the, in the past, you know, this broad speaking stuff, broad brush stuff about just doesn’t matter. You know, just get out there, just do, do, do the stuff – can now be approached in a much more sophisticated way. I’m saying that you’re aware of all the channels and all the mediums and nanny, your approach and how your going to do the communication is actually about the connections style that is the most in sync with your personality and all the characteristics of you. That’s fantastic. And I love that you’ve covered that. There’s so many different mediums. And when we’ve made, when you mentioned at the beginning, when you were talking about Seth Godin’s work about economies, it’s not that everybody is just tied into watching the television now all of these different mediums are available. So you, the first thing you said was people saying, do I need to do all of them? What’s your thoughts on that?

My thoughts are that he wants to do the ones that feel the most natural to you because otherwise you fall off the bandwagon. Yeah, you fancy having your own podcast. And you give it a go and you learn the ropes and you and you do it and it feels really good and really solid and really like what you need to be doing. You will keep on doing it. You’ll evolve and morph, but you keep on doing it. If you’ve heard that it’s the latest marketing thing and there’s half a million is 500,000 or something on the iTunes apps and you need to be getting on there and doing it. And it’s kind of an external thing and you started and you do it and you actually don’t like interviewing.

You don’t like the whole tacky setup of you’ve got to have the Mike or something. And you do, and you do a few and you grind and you do about a dozen and then you start to drop off and start to drop off. Then you get annoyed and you get resentful. Anything, well, why am I doing this? And some of it’ll be those foundational mindsets of just get on the bandwagon and doing that. But other pieces of the puzzle, 10 day, I think that it’s not intrinsic really to you. And so you might love podcasts, but you actually need to be a guest on them, you might like,

Janet Beckers:          yeah.

Emma Franklin:         That he might need to be, I’m either getting someone or yourself or an assistant to be going through all those half a million and finding the ones that are your people and your, your, that would be great for you. And lining up an interview or week, you know, on podcasts. Yeah. So it’s, it’s, you know, what’s, what’s the approach? Same with video. Yes, it’s great to be doing all of the video and everyone talks about live and everything else. But if you’re holding yourself back and you’re not moving forward, because whenever it comes to live, you just can’t do it. Then doing recorded, prerecorded videos and maybe batching those as a way of doing video is going to be better. And then with time you might be, I’m really my grief with this now. I’ve been doing that for a year. I think I could really get into life. I feel comfortable. Yeah. You know, or it could even be, you know, if you’re, I’m more of say an advocate type connector style that you actually want to be on video, but you want to be interviewing just so there’s a little bit of space between the intensity of just you on video. Excellent ways.

Janet Beckers:          [inaudible] yeah, I love that distinction. So it’s not a matter of then maybe a matter of, well, you know what, there’s some medium, I’m not even gonna go there yet. But there’s also within each medium you can work with what your particular strengths are. So you, and, and this is where I also see that a lot of people will go wrong without go. Well, alright. So I know if I’m, for example, you know, going to be doing video that I must be doing sales videos, live videos, video podcast, I’ve got, I’ve gotta be doing the formula where as, as we’ll talk about in a minute, once you’re super clear on what’s unique about you and your natural way of doing things, you can own your particular way of doing it. So you’re working within what works, but you’re creating your own formula and that’s where you get to be in your zone of genius.

And it becomes very, very easy. Yeah know, cause like for example, I use video all the time. I could have chosen to make this podcast only audio. Now on iTunes it is audio, but we have it on everywhere else. It’s on video. And the reason I’ve chosen to do that when most people don’t is I love seeing the person’s face. Cause I work very well off people’s cues, off their body language and can then perhaps pick up things that I can be asking that I may not have picked up if it was just through audio. And so that’s because that’s I, I do easily. So use that medium in that particular way. When I tried just doing it audio, I felt like that there was just something missing. There’s other people that could be a distraction.

Emma Franklin:         So, yes. And, and I think also too, that especially if you’re starting out, you know, trying to do all of the stuff all at once, it’s just too overwhelming. Oh, absolutely. You know, you want to own it too. You want to feel good and then you can, you can branch out. And it’s the same, you know, people will sort of talk about, you know, blogging and that sort of stuff. And should I blog and writing the pain or whatever. Some people say this and then they write these beautiful posts in their social media, so they don’t even realize that they sort of doing a lot in the written word. Because they’ve sort of programmed themselves to think how old that’s got to be about articles and blogs and then they do these fantastic you know, may be couple of hundred words under a social post.

Yeah. So that’s probably feeling more connected. So is there a way of, you know, if you do one of those every couple of days, you might find that they all have a similar theme. If you’re, you know, talking about the same message that you can, you know, collect those posts, over a week. Any modern find you’ve got 600 words and then you can edit it and use that. You can say, you know, my musings from the week, or my tips from, from, from the week, you know, and you don’t even, I mean as a, a lot of great written content that that just needs to be tightened up a little bit, on people’s social posts. That’s a great point.

Janet Beckers:          And that’s in terms of people for Action Taking we’ve already given you a few things that you can be doing now. You know, it was just given already some great ideas on that. That’s a lovely one for people who may be saying, you know, putting words out there on social media because for them it’s, I’m just talking to friends, this doesn’t stick. They’re finding it easier to do. It is can you repurpose that? And I love that I do musings for for the week or a newsletter, yeah, that’s right.

Emma Franklin:         And you see, I think people often as well when they, when they are socially interacting with their social media and they do a post and then they sort of doing amusing or something, you know, they’re often relaxed. You know, you’re often on the couch all year, all year, um, you know, at the cafe or something. So you are feeling more connected and you are feeling sort of in the zone. Whereas I think sometimes people environment has a lot to do with it. And so if they open the laptop and open a blank page blog, you know, and it feels all very wiki. They like, what am I going to say? Yes. So it’s all about changing all that up, you know? And I think moving forward, this is, this is how we can see that we can be, you know, extracting, pulling out content in you know, different ways

Janet Beckers:          and giving yourself permission to do it your way. So now let’s just go over into the last part that we’ll be doing today, which is looking at how do you know, how do you find your unique connection style? And this is what I’ve just absolutely loved watching Emma create because once you sort of like totally owned, you know what, I am really good at connection and helping other people with connection. You then very quickly were able to put a great framework together to really help people because it was all there. And so I just, you know, I love what you’ve done. I’ve gone through it myself and gone, yes, you’re spot on. You’re reading my mind. So that’s what I know. Everybody here is going to listen. So first of all, where can people go so they can do this, this quiz that you’ve created to be able to identify their own unique connection style and the training that goes with it. The training’s really good, the videos that you’ve got to really help you understand it up. Perfect. So where will people go? And then we’re going to do a bit of an intro on that.

Emma Franklin:         Yeah. So you can jump over to So that’s simple as my name’s slash quiz and yeah, the connection styles. I am, I kind of meditate on all of this because over the years doing one to one work with people you know, on their books, on my content or my businesses, I could see that with the rise of needing to be getting out there more and amplifying ourselves more, I was seeing things that hold people back. And then I was also saying that people seem to have different approaches. They had different sort of their own way and they would lean into certain styles more. And so I am so, so rather than this, again, broadly speaking, do video, do audio, but instead of thinking about, okay, well if I really own my style, so, so I worked out that there are five styles and I’ve come up with these and that is trusted advisors, storyteller, provocateur, advocate and inspirer.

So I mean they, they fairly sort of descriptive in their time of what they are. But yeah, in essence I could see that, you know, and you’ll start to see it even with people that you say follow or read authors, books and then you see them online, you’ll see that people, I mean they can have, we’ll have all of them in us and you lean into certain things when you need it, when you need to. So if you’re talking about data, you might lean more into the trusted advisor role, but in essence, you have that primary style is what you feel most comfortable in. Excellent. Yeah. So you don’t feel held back. You don’t feel you know, like trying to be someone that you’re really not, you know, so there’s all these, all that sort of stuff.

And obviously trusted advisor is someone who feels very comfortable in research, in data, in case studies. And obviously, you know, doing, doing powerpoints or reading things from books or being interviewed by people on information. You know, often academics and people like this, that trusted advisor is really strong. And I feel really comfortable in that storyteller obviously. People who draw on their own stories client stories, case studies, even things like legends mix fables to illustrate points. Yeah. So if you were talking about a mindset piece, so you were a client through something you might refer to. You know, to some, you know, talk to us in the hair, you know, some fable, but we’re all privy to knowing about and the little lessons in that.

Janet Beckers:          Oh, and I love it when people can communicate that way. Like, I, I really am drawn to the story teller type when I did your quiz. I did not come out as the storyteller. And I don’t think it’s something that I naturally do myself, but when I am exposed to somebody who is a storyteller, I’m just mesmerized, like I just follow, let them, I love them. So if they’re telling their stories, so that’s a great one. The storyteller.

Emma Franklin:         Yeah. And we all love stories because you know, um, you know, our structure and our narrative hero’s journey and that, so we, storytelling is one thing that we need to be drawing in. And what’s interesting is you can you can get confident by also drawing from the other styles. So sometimes I’ll talk to clients who say doing work as you know, I meditation teachers or something and they want to go into corporate and they will say, I’m in a corporate setting. You know, I need to be sort of sounding even, you know, even though I am, I need to be sounding more credible. I need to be sounding more like what van understand, where you can turn to the trusted advisor kind of style. And that’s where you can draw on and say, okay, I’m an inspirer, but I actually need to draw on some of those attributes.

So I’m going to look at the benefits of meditation. I’m going to look at some of these research studies and so I can show, I can be talking to people who I want to be talking to and I can give them some of the messaging that they will appreciate and want. So, you know, yeah. And so you can, you can draw on them provocateur. Obviously, you know, people who are, you know, bold, into progress, you know, you’ll see this with movements. People who sort of you know, they’re not there, they’re just going to call BS on things. They’re, they’re straight to the point. And that is one where people can feel like they can feel held back. Should I be saying this? This is really me that’s about unleashing, you know, and becoming more confident in yeah. Standing my ground, owning that kind of ribble, sort of, I guess.

Yeah. Advocate, which, which is me, is the the person who shines the spotlight on others. That’s why I love doing podcast interviews. That’s why I love working with clients and drawing them the out. So if it may, it’s always, you know, drawing out things, lifting things up and finding the truth, you know all of that stuff that the inspirer is, you know, charismatic and they, they lift their energy, they drive us forward with their, you know, joy and presence of, of the, you can do it, you know, it’s possible for you. You can do it. So, yeah, so all of them, and that’s why if you are going to do a presentation, and it was, some sort of audience that, you know, after dinner or something and I wanted it to be lifted up, you would say, yeah, I think I need to draw on that inspirer you know, I’m going to read a bit about that and I’m going to take my trusted advisor that I’m also going to inject some of the inspirer qualities.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. So that was a fine now. So it was probably like, I’m sure if you had a percentage it would probably be like not out of 10. She hates those inspirer one because they just the wind, the quiz that you went through. And I do find with mine, even though I definitely draw more on you know, the advocate is a huge one cause I love other people’s stories. But that whole thing of I believe in you, I believe in you. I believe. Yes. You know, and I know you can do this. I’m just, I’m here for you baby. I’m going to stick with you until you can do it. Cause I know you can. That’s the Inspirer that comes out. So yes, that’s, yeah, that was, it was, and it was actually quite affirming to do your quiz and to see the way that you describe it because it allows you to go, well, you know, that’s, there is still there’s a bit, there’s meat behind the, you know, the infancy inspiration story there is still, Oh yes. We still valid. It doesn’t cause sometimes there as the person who is the inspirer, sometimes you can think, you know, sure I’ve motivated you, but I’m really clever too. Yes, yes.

Emma Franklin:         And that’s right. And that’s why in the, when you go through and do the quiz, which is quick, it’s only six questions and me and you go through, it’d be great over to actually develop it and make, you know, make it more meaty and longer. Yeah, that’d be really interesting. But yeah, so it’s a quick, it’s a quick quiz and then I do talk about a bit later on about visibility blocks. And so there are things that can come up against these, these quiz styles. It’s not like, oh great, I’m the inspirer, that’s what I do. And I go out and I’m all into it and you can do it and everything and I feel great. You will come up against the blocks that are associated with that connect to style. And it’s probably things that you’ve noticed throughout your whole life. Like, yeah, cause you’re signing, you know, will people think there’s enough substance behind behind my, at my joyful way of operating, you know, and so and so, yes, you’re able to then break down those blocks by drawing on, on elements that, that prove that, you know, that’s not,

Janet Beckers:          yeah. Yeah. Nice. And I love it. So I’m a really do highly recommend everybody goes and does the quiz. It’s quite quick, but incredibly insightful. And the, and you know, as Emma’s talked about, not only did she talk about what your strengths are, she then talks about your visibility blocks specific to what your connection style is really, really useful. Very, very clever. So if you go to, You’ll be able to do that. Now you’re listening to this on the audio on iTunes. First of all, you’ve got to come over to the page to see this beautiful radiant smile. And also we will have some show notes there for you. And, I’ll have the links there so that you can go and do the quiz. And one of the things that we’re trailing at the moment with our podcasting is instead of writing a long article, I’m actually putting a worksheet for you to go out.

So yes. So we’ll be putting out a worksheet, not on the quiz of course, cause everybody can get that from there. But I’m going to be, we’ll be putting that there, that’s going to be guiding you through a couple of things. And I think one of the things that we’ll probably do is how you can get that mindset that’s going to allow you to be visible. Some tasks that you can be doing to help you prep, to get that mindset to be able to get visible so that when you know what your connection type is that you are going to be able to go out there with confidence and totally nail it baby. Cause I know you can do it. So sounds great. Sounds really, really, yes. So we’ll have a little of that there for you. So we’ve covered a lot of topics today. They, it’s just such a great opportunity. This is why I love doing the podcasts because if we just want it to say to you, okay, here are the different mediums that you could be using and here are connection types. Sure. That would be something that we could just do in a simple article. But to have somebody where we can dive in and see what makes Emma tick and what is it that you can take away that you can start modeling and implementing in your own approach to business that’s going to make it so much easier for you to get results. That is priceless. So I’m really grateful that you took the time to be able to break it down – how you’ve been able to take what you did from the discipline that you had to do to be you know, a fantastic performer at a high level. What that mindset is and how does that then applies to what you’re doing in business. I’m really, I’m really grateful that we did that because then it makes those, the rest of the things that we did so much more powerful for people to be able to go and implement.

So thank you so much, Emma and everybody that is listening here. Let’s now think about what’s one thing that people can do this week that’s going to help them to start, implement. Of course we’ve got to go and do the quiz. But what else? Is there something that you can think that people can be doing this week that’s going to help them to start getting more visible?

Emma Franklin:         Yes. Well I think, thanks for that wrap up there Janet. And also I think it’s a great point about when you say you can dive into these things in a more thorough way on the podcast. And that’s what I would also say to people, the, the beauty of audio and video. Once you get into your style and you move through any blocks and you, and you realize, this is what I want to do, I want to amplify my message. Especially for women who are in those industries that transform lives.

Often your work is not a sound bite. Often it needs dialogue. That’s why using audio and video as a medium and backing that argument up with you know, your, your written work. And of course if you’re an advocate, not now, you probably want to write a lot of books. But having the dialogue is really what helps you get your ideas landing and understood in people’s hearts and minds in a much easier way because they’re hearing that, that dialog. So, in terms of the practical for one where yes, you, you, you do the quiz and then you might be quite enlightened, oh, you know, this is, this is the style that I am. And then think about brainstorm the different practical ways that you think, um, that connect to style would, would, would approach being online and being more visible. And it could also mean offline presentations or talks at a networking group as well.

So mainly talking about online, but also in offline areas as well. So, you know, if you, if you are the inspirer, you know, what could you be what could you be doing and how could you be communicating it this week in a practical way? You know, so whenever you’re work is, could you be angling those posts this week in a more uplifted inspirational way as well as whatever you talk about that in a, in a slightly more in a voice that is more inspirational because that’ll probably be feeling more in sync with you. Yeah, yeah. Or if you’re thinking, that you want to do a prerecorded video, you know, don’t get stiff and think about what you should be doing. But you know, if you, if your, the provocateur, you know, maybe put on some music that gets you in the zone of how you really feel. And then when you, when you do the prerecorded, the, you just have that energy coming through a bit more, you know, don’t go, slammed ridiculous. But just having that energy sort of behind what you doing more and you’ll just start leaning into it more and more. And more and more.

Janet Beckers:          Mm. That’s brilliant. Tips, brilliant tips. And one last thing I do want to leave people with is when you do go over and do the quiz from Emma, keep your eye open because at the time of recording, um, Emma has a new book that will be coming out very, very soon. And what’s the title?

Emma Franklin:         It’s “Write your first Nonfiction Book” making it really clear. Yes. It’s about writing your first book. That’s nonfiction coming out in August. Um, and it’s a book written, um, off the, off the back of all the work and material that I’ve done in groups and one to one with people who are writing their first nonfiction. So it’s practical, it’s got exercises and it takes you right through all the things you need to know, um, to get your first book written.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah, that is wonderful. This wonderful. Thank you so much for your time today and thank you everybody that’s here has always, the best thing that you can do is to give us some feedback. So go to Emma, you know, stalk her on social media. When you’ve done the quiz, just drop her an email and tell her yeah, just one thing that you have taken away today and an action step that you are doing. I would love to hear from you as well. So either drop me an email, leave a message, um, you know, um, you know, on social media, come and talk, come and talk to me. They’d tell me what was it that you know, something that you’ve taken action on because honestly that is the biggest thank you. That we can get in return for putting, you know, taking the time to be able to share these stories with you is just knowing that it’s helped you to do some action is priceless. So we’d love to hear from you and if you are listening on iTunes, I would really appreciate if you would share that as one of the, as a comment or review and honest thing like what have you taken away that would really help other people to be able to discover people like Emma as well. Okay. Thank you so much everybody for taking the time to be here and thank you so much, Emma. It’s just been really inspiring.

Emma Franklin:         Thanks Janet. It was, it was wonderful. Really wonderful. Thank you. Okay, bye.

How to Write Your Own Sales Copy with Authentic Emotion

How to Write Your Own Sales Copy with Authentic Emotion

Mastering writing your own sales copy is a skill I reckon you get the greatest return on as a business owner. No-one knows and understands your clients as well as you do. No-one knows your products and services better than you. So the best investment you can make it to learn the skills to communicate with your potential clients, how you and your solutions will help them.

This skill to communicate, that’s copywriting.

It’s not just sales letters. When you know how to write your own sales letters, you master communication for emails, blog posts, social media posts, videos scripts… communication at every stage you have a touch point with a potential, and existing clients.

But it’s not easy! That’s why there are so many formulas, templates and even fill-in-the-blanks sales letter generator software programs. But even if you use a great template, like I’ve created as part of our Attract Your Tribe program, you still need the skills to truly connect with your readers at an emotional level that makes your copy speak authentically in a voice your perfect avatar.

To help you, today I’ve invited Pauline Longdon as our podcast guest. Pauline is the expert in writing authentic copy that truly connects on an emotional level and resonates with a conscious consumer.

Here’s what you’ll discover today:

  • How hiring a bad copywriter started Pauline down the track of “I can do better” and onto world-class reputation as a copywriter for conscious consumers
  • Why so many marketing funnels fail and why copy is so much more than a good sales letter.
  • Why you as the business owner need to know how to really connect with the emotions of your ideal customer, and in a way that is truly authentic.
  • The truth about writers block and how to write great copy every day – even if you just don’t feel in the zone. (I have a bonus cheat sheet for you on this)
  • Clever online ways to really get inside the head of your target market
  • Why Pauline writes her copy for her mum, and who you should use as your muse.
  • Collateral consumers and why they matter
  • 3 big tips so you can totally nail writing your own copy

Plus action steps you can take THIS WEEK to start writing your own sales copy that really connects with your readers on an emotional level.


Plus a special podcast bonus for you today. An action guide to download  “Kiss Writer’s Block Goodbye Action Guide”.


You can check out the brilliant free copywriting resources Pauline has created over here.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

Click the image below to download the BONUS worksheet!

Pauline’s Bio

Pauline Longdon is an author, podcaster, direct response copywriter, and marketer. She specialises in writing to the conscious consumer.

Pauline’s been trained by the “who’s who” of the copywriting world. She started her copywriting journey out of necessity when she couldn’t find anyone who could write copy for her New Age business.

She has never looked back.

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d love for you to take a quick minute to share your thoughts with us and leave an honest review and rating for the show over on iTunes!

Read The Transcript Here

Janet Beckers:                  Hello everybody! Janet Beckers here and I’m really excited today to introduce you to gorgeous Pauline Longdon from the Copy Alchemist. How are you gorgeous?

Pauline Longdon:            I’m great. Thank you, it’s awesome to be here.

Janet Beckers:                  Today is such a really valuable topic that we’re going to be doing here. So make sure you take notes because we’re going to be talking about doing copy, which is like sales letters, emails, blog posts, absolutely every single thing that you could possibly be communicating. You need the skills of copywriting. So whether you’re going to be getting somebody else to do it for you or whether you’re doing it yourself, you don’t want to sound like everybody else. And that’s the hard part. So that’s what we’re going to be covering today from somebody who’s, this is her absolute expertise. So I’m really, really excited to welcome you here, Pauline. Now before we get diving into our topic and for everybody that’s here, make sure you’re taking notes.

It’s, you know, we’re going to be covering lots of really good actionable tips for you. And just so you know, I also have a special Freebie for you today. Before we get stuck in, just so you know, if you’re listening to this on iTunes, come over to the podcast page because there I’ve got a Freebie for you where I’ve actually got a worksheet where we’re going to be going over… so you can take some action today on the things that we’ve covered. So as well as some gifts from Pauline, I’ve also got that one there for you that goes with this podcast. So I’m actually go over, so I’ve just got that housekeeping out of the way. So heading over to you, Pauline, before we get started, can you just introduce yourself cause it’s lovely to have another fellow Aussie. And we’ve got a lot of background that will cover that.

We’ve realized we have a lot in common, but, um, if you could just let people know, you know, who it is that you help and how do you do it. And then we’ll get stuck into some really good stories.

Pauline Longdon:            Okay. So I’m a copywriter. And so that means that I write words for whatever people need, websites, emails, sales letters. I love sales letters. They just really float my boat. I help business people who are struggling to write copy for themselves or perhaps they’ve been burnt by copywriters in the past and there are so many people, which is, and you know what Janet? That is why I became a copywriter. I was a business owner. I got someone to write some copy for me. It cost me a small fortune. Actually, it was a big fortune at the time. The copy sucked I asked for it to be rewritten. They said, if you think he can do better, do better. And I said, well, honestly, I can’t do any worse. So then I jumped down the copy writing rabbit hole and I have never looked back. And the irony was that I did do better and then people decided to hire me to become a copywriter, to write copy for them. So I became a copywriter and yeah, I love it.

Janet Beckers:                  Isn’t that funny? That’s like, that’s, I mean, that’s pretty arrogant. See if you can do better.

Pauline Longdon:            Yeah, yeah. I’m a Taurus and I’m a bit stubborn, so like it’s red flag to a bull. It’s like you watched me. Yeah. And they’ve been watching me ever since.

Janet Beckers:                  Oh, there you go. Oh, that’s, yeah. So I love that you… wait, so you’re copywriter, so you do copy for people. Is that the main way that you help people or what about for people who don’t want to hire a copywriter? Can you help?

Pauline Longdon:            Well, I can, I can help people, learn how to write copy. So I’ve got mentees and students that are teach, um, because I think one of the things is, even if you don’t want to hire it, if you do want to hire a copywriter, you still need to have a little bit of a basic lesson in copywriting because, you know, sometimes we will, we’ll look at the copy and go, you know, just feels off. Well, I don’t know what ‘feel off’ means. So, I hope paper to communicate, you know, what’s right and what’s wrong with copy. But also, here’s the thing about copy, because copy doesn’t occur in a vacuum. It occurs in a space and we call that marketing. So with marketing, um, I can help people, you know, I can analyze their funnel to see, cause a lot of people think that they’ve got a marketing funnel but they have a marketing calendar cause it’s got so many holes in it.

Janet Beckers:                  Ah, that’s a good way, yeah.

Pauline Longdon:            So what I do is I’ll map out their copy and I’ll say, okay, so you’ve got guys from an ad that you guys to, an editorial goes to, this goes to this. So, but where’s this go to? He does a jump. So because I started as a marketer first and then we need to copy, I’ve got that whole suite that I can then just map it out and say this is what you need. Or if they don’t have a big budget, I say this is the minimum viable funnel that you need to get the results. Because you’ve got to be honest Janet. Marketing, copywriting is about results. Yeah. That’s what we do it for. Otherwise, why waste your money?

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, absolutely. Because it’s about, and this is where people I think sometimes get so wrapped up in the whole technical part of, you know, should I be putting full bullet points or you know, seven bullet points, you know, and all of the structure and things that go into it. And these are the headlines that always work. They get so wrapped up in all that technical stuff that they forget that this is about communication. It’s really just a way of helping people understand is have they got the problem and is it important enough to them to actually spend money to solve it? And have you got the solution? Like it’s just communication. Yes. What we thought we would do is, um, you know, if everybody that’s listening here is to make, we’re going to, we thought we covered two here for you. So Pauline and I are really gonna dive into what makes a difference between like just copywriting.

Like it could be written by anybody and that real authentic emotion that goes into it. Like how do you make it really connected sound like you. So we’re going to cover that up. You thought, before we do that we thought we might dive a little bit into how on earth do you get yourself in the right mindset to even be able to write and be able to express and to be able to basically get your act together. Because most people and my hand up is there is you know, cause I’ve studied a lot of copywriting but I only use it for myself and you know, but I’ve seriously got to get myself in the right mindset to be able to write copy for myself, you know, little in line somebody else because otherwise I just stare at the screen and fridge or go and check the fridge like, you know, at least every 30 minutes to see if there’s something new in there. So let’s what do we dive into that a little bit first, Pauline? Yeah.

Pauline Longdon:            Yes. I think that’s really good because, you know, as, as a professional copywriter, I can’t, and I don’t have the luxury of waiting till I get in the zone or when the muse comes and visits me in sprinkles fairy dust on me and says, you shall ride copy. Now I haven’t got that luxury. So I’d love to share that with people because they, they don’t have the luxury either. They are busy business owners and this is copy is only one little part of what they do.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah. Excellent! Well, let’s look at… So for you what’s the things that people really need to take into account in order to first of all, get themselves organized? Yeah. To be able to start writing their copy and then what can we be doing that’s really practical things to get your mindset right yet energy, right?

Pauline Longdon:            Yeah. So I think the biggest thing that I noticed that people don’t do is that they don’t know who they’re writing to. And I will give you a tip from a, you know, every copywriter that I’ve learned from and I’ve learned from some of the best in the on the planet, is that research, your copy is one in the research. Now, research is more than just facts and figures though, because people will talk about with your research, you’re researching the demographics. So that’s how old they are, whether they’re male or female, they’re psychographic. So what magazines I read and you know, all that sort of stuff, but there’s something that people miss all the time. And so I’ve added a new word too to the mix and Michael, call it a emotion graphics there, the emotions that people are feeling and how do you find out those easy? We, we live in a time where there is unprecedented candid view of everyone’s lives and it’s called the Internet.

It’s called Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And all of those social media people are so candid on those things. And what I do in my research is I tap into what they’re feeling about certain things. And this is what emotional graphics are, is like what are the feelings I feel about things like, so say for instance, someone like Donald Trump, I’m like my goodness. Like people are so triggered about that on both ends of the spectrum. So if you’re writing to a very liberal, you know, liberal as in American liberals, then he’s the enemy. If you’re writing to the conservatives, he’s, he’s a hero. So knowing your audience is paramount because they will actually sometimes give you the words that you use in your copy. So, and one of my mentors, Dan Kennedy said, if you can tell someone their problem as well as they can all, if not better, they will instantly think that you have the solution.

Janet Beckers:                  That’s such a great line!

Pauline Longdon:            So if you’re using [inaudible] yeah, if you’re using their words, then they instantly think that, that you have a rapport. And also here’s the thing, you do it. This is not fake or it’s not trickery or manipulation. What you’re doing is you actually getting to know the person you think about in real life. You can’t have a conversation with people if you don’t know what interests them. You just stand there and go, yes, the weather’s lovely today. You know, we know people. You can have a really good conversation and that’s all copy is, its a conversation.

Janet Beckers:                  I liked how you talked about, it’s not manipulation because a lot of times people have a huge mindset barrier to the idea of copywriting and especially about talking about emotions. And I love your term of the, what was it? Emotion, your emotion, your graphic and emotion graphics. I love that one that they hold, they’ll really go against it going, but that’s manipulative. But any conversation that you’re having with people is you could call it manipulation. You could call it genuinely caring and getting to know what people think. Yeah. It’s, you know, it’s, you know, if you’re using it for good or evil is the difference in, Hey, if you’re listening to this podcast, I know you’re using it for good. So, yeah. Yeah, that’s a really important one. So I love that you talked about that research because when I started wonderful web women, which was the precursor to romance your tribe, and I ran that for 10 years my previous business. And Art Gallery had failed, like lost absolutely. Every cent I had was seriously scarred. And I realized that I hadn’t done the research. I didn’t understand people’s emotions. And so when I did that research for wonderful web women, I was gonna make sure I knew everything, but there was no Facebook or anything with that. So I actually went along too.

I went to marketing events in the women’s toilets at lunch time. Yes. When along the queue is everybody’s lining up to go to the loose with an MP3 recorder asking them what they felt about everything, what were their frustrations. Now you don’t have to stalk in the women’s loos. You can just go to Facebook and see what people are. Yes. So I love that. So that’s, that’s the number one thing, like really in getting yourself ready before you even start writing, getting organized. Excellent. Over to you baby!

Pauline Longdon:            So yeah, getting to know who you’re writing to. We’ll then help you to get into that zone. One of the things that I do also is I’m going from the research then, you know, people will talk about you form an Avatar of who, who you’re writing to. The problem with an Avatar is that there are two dimensional person. Even if you write those great big stories that you know, like Susan Smith is a 65 year old woman, she’s got 10 65 grandchildren, blah, blah blah.

She goes to yoga on a Monday morning and all that sort of stuff. It doesn’t matter because she’s still created. She actually isn’t a real person. But what I encourage my students and people that I talk to about the Avatar. Start with the Avatar, but that is not the destination. So I start with Avatar and then find someone in your, in your social sphere who is the embodiment of that person. So what makes the difference between flat copy and copy that doesn’t connect is people writing to an Avatar or a concocted person that the copy that does connect with someone is the copy that is written to a real person. And so the difference in my copy when people read my copy to go, Holy Shit, you know, you just caught me in the heart. You know, it’s almost like just knowing me so well I’m writing to one person, I’m not going, hey everyone, yeah, I’ve got this solution and I’ll tell you, most of the time I write to my mother cause I… the person has to be someone that you have an affection for because here’s the thing, if you’re writing to someone that you don’t like, then your copy is going to come across as hostile and taking advantage and being manipulative. But if you write to someone that you love, then you actually setting up a zone of it’s almost like a sanctuary where you’re having this conversation, but it’s meaningful conversation with someone that you love. And here’s the thing Janet, I would never rip my mom off, I would never write what copy to try to manipulate her or convince her to buy something that wouldn’t be in the best and highest for her. And as a copywriter, I don’t like for those kind of clients or products anyway.

But when I write my copy to my mother who I love and adore, but she’s as skeptical as anyone. Like that’s why cause she’s so quick to say bullshit. And so that’s why I write to her. So find someone in your social sphere, someone that you a great affection for, even someone that you love and then just write to that one person.

Janet Beckers:                  So this is the interesting, so I’m just thinking about… like my mother is definitely not, you know, anything like my customer. So mind you having said that, you know, she is maybe because of, you know, the type of customer I have or the top of market, you know, to me they’re all potential best friends and you know, my mum is really close like that. You know what if your Avatar is really quite different, like would you, would you choose somebody like your mother or would you choose somebody who’s been a great customer or that you’d love to be your customer? Could you still get that same emotion?

Pauline Longdon:            You could, but you won’t if you are writing just to a customer but surely…like, let’s take the mother out of it. Cause see I wrote write to the boomers like I’ll right baby boomers and supplement copy and other kinds of copy. But then if I’m writing to a younger, I might write to my sister or if I’m writing to a different audience, I’ll find someone that I’m friends with. You know cause I’ve got friends everywhere. There was a sales letter that I wrote recently that has just like gone crazy. And here’s the thing though, Janet, I wrote it for a male copywriter to mostly attract male copywriters to an event that we’re doing in Poland next month. And I’m the only female speaker, right? So he asked me, Trevor Cooke, asked me to write the sales letter for him. Now I’m not male, I don’t know what it’s like to be male.

So what I did was I just targeted two of the copywriting friends that I think really need to go to this conference. And I wrote the letter to them as a, as a cross character. And I’ve got to tell you, both of those people are going to the event, the copies spoke to them. But not only that, and I’ll call these like collateral consumers. It actually rippled out to other people that may not have been totally them, but we’re close enough that they, they were influenced by the copy collateral consumers. Oh, you’ve got some good phrases. I like that. Like copywriter, I know that he’s brilliant. Okay, that’s really good. But does that make sense? Like I have to be a model for me, it’s my mother for some things, for other markets that are right too. I pick someone in my social sphere that I know that would benefit from what I’m writing about and then I just have a beautiful conversation with them.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, I love it. Oh, that’s really, really good tip. Okay. So, now with getting the prep, so we’ve got, you know, for getting organized with, I love those really different tips on, you know, really getting to understand how they think and what their feelings are. So now when it comes to us getting ready to actually start doing the copy, getting out head space right for there, what’s some tips that people can use to even, you know, so they can write so it’s actually going to come from the heart and come out authentically?

Pauline Longdon:            So what I like to do, if I sit at my desk and I can’t write, I will read some really good writing. I will read a sales letter of someone that I like, I will read from an author that I like. I mean, as a copywriter one of my favorite things to do is there’s a, there was a copywriter called Gary Halbert and he, um, came out with the newsletter. So if you Google Gary Halbert Letter or the Halbert Letter, just read one of those because there has… unfortunately he’s passed, but there’s never been a copywriter who has written will conversationally than that man. And so what I did was I would read one or two of his, um, newsletters each day before I started to write. I’d write my copy and then, cause I, I sent it out each week, I send out my knowledge nuggets to my audience and they’d say, Pauline is funny at the moment because your copy is really conversational. I go, Oh, I’m reading Gary Halbert. And I said, oh, of course you are because you can tell it, it infuses into copies. So the way to be a good a writer is to read great writing. So I would suggest him, if you want to know, I had write conversationally and that’s what copies should just be a conversation that you’re having with someone else.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, yeah. That is a really good tip. You know, doesn’t that go for practically anything creative? I know, you know, cause we were both talking beforehand is that we’re both assets in different ways. Me with paint. And you were jewelry and um, you know, and I know for me to get inspiration is one of the best things I can do is go to an art gallery or even just go on Pinterest or go on Instagram and, and look for different artworks and techniques because it gives me ideas. It’s not copying, you’re not copying Gary Halbert, but it’s helping you to get your mind in that creative zone. So that’s a really, really good tip. Thank you.

Pauline Longdon:            Another thing that my mentors have been very, very big on and there are two schools of thought as with everything in life and that is to write out good copy by hand. So if you see, if you see a Facebook post or if you see an ad or a sales letter, and by the way, some sales letters are like 70 pages long, so it’s a long whole thing. I write them out by hand just to get in the zone. For me, it’s kind of like a meditation and as I’m, because when you read something out, you think that you read every word but you don’t, you scale. That’s how we read. But when you actually write it out by hand, you become more competent of the actual words that are written in the copy. And, as you said, it’s not copying per se, although we call it copywriting. We do copywriting. But you are being influenced by, you know, because copy has got like a tempo and a flow. And that’s something that you don’t actually realize until you write it out by hand and you kind of unpack what the writer was doing.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, yeah. That’s brilliant. Okay. That’s good. So yeah, you’re collecting, so I guess it’s collecting great writers to get, get yourself. So you’re, you’ve got that inspiration to start with. And, and before we actually start sitting down to write now and, and you know, and making sure that we’re using techniques that are going to be for authentic writing, is there anything else that people should do to make sure that when they sit down that they’re not going to be just staring at that screen?

Pauline Longdon:            I think if you’ve done all the research, cause like… there’s a lot of ’em conjecture about the whole idea of writer’s block. And when I think of when I was a nurse, I never ever had like nurse’s block. I never like went to the pan room, picked up a pan and go, oh, wait a minute, what was I gonna do with this again? You know, you don’t and doctors don’t have doctor’s block. They don’t open up a patient. Go, what was I operating on again? That it all looks so confusing. You know, no one else does that. So, um, as a, as a rule, I just don’t allow myself to have writer’s block. If I can’t write, I need to research more. So read more articles or, you know, get into that so that, that all happens before I sit down to write, sit down, you should be writing and ready to go.

Janet Beckers:                  You know, it’s interesting you say that because I hear a lot of people and I’m exactly the same. I just got to get in the zone, you know, so I will have I’ll get the essential oils out. I put on my earphones and I put on brain FM because that was one of the things when I was writing some sales copy. Every sir, I just ask on Facebook, all the copywriters who I knew, you know, what do you use? Like music that doesn’t have lyrics to distract you… Brain FM and you know, and then I’ll have, you know, all these nice smells and everything will be attractive around me. And then I think is this you Janet procrastinating? But part of it is because it’s like, to me that’s the rituals for anti-writer’s block. And I just love that you’ve gone, you know what, there’s no such thing. Like I’m not even going to give myself permission to even accept.

Pauline Longdon:            Can I explain why I do that? Because I’m, here’s the thing, like I’m in my office right now. I call it my bunker of brilliance, right? So I’ve got the essential oils, I’ve got things around me that, you know, make me feel happy. I’ve got my double screens, I’ve got everything here but here’s the thing, if I, anchor myself too writing only happens when I’ve got essential oils, the right music, this, that and all the rest. What happens when I’m outside of my office, because although I call this the bunker of brilliance, I’ve got the bunker of brilliance travels with me. So if I’m writer in a hotel room, I’ve even written copy in, in the laundry, in a hotel laundry while I waited for my laundry to be done in America. Cause I didn’t want someone to steal my knickers and sell them on Ebay cause they might get 50 cents, you know, kind of thing, but just joking.

Janet Beckers:                  Because it Pauline’s!

Pauline Longdon:            Yeah, that’s right. Let’s see. And I’ve always been a believer in this even cause I used to be, a woo-woo teacher like new age healing stuff and I always told my students to never empower anything outside of yourself to affect the performance that you have within you. So don’t put your power into crystals. Don’t put your power into, um, you know, anything external like essential oils or even the kind of computer that you use or the time of the day that you write. I mean if you need to write, you need to write, you don’t want to go through this dis-empowering thing of going, oh I can only write, you know, and even at the moment, like Mercury’s in retrograde, people will say that. And by the way, I do believe that it does stuff things up, but I still have to write through it.

I can’t just go no, no cruising retrograde, no writing for like a couple of months or however long [inaudible] to perform. So that’s why I say empower yourself, not the things around you.

Janet Beckers:                  That is brilliant. That is such a good tip. Now leading… so we’ve got ourselves ready now. So let’s have a look. If there is some big chunk things that when you’re writing your copy, so it is going to be authentic. So if you over to you baby, cause again, you know, I’m just here as your… as your guide to go you through.

Pauline Longdon:            So I think… going back to like the one person, what you’re thinking about is like how would you communicate with that person? So if you wouldn’t say it to the person in a conversation like face to face then don’t write it. Like you know, you see these headlines and people go “cancer” question mark. If you’ve got cancer blah blah blah. And it’s like, would you say that to someone with cancer? Would you say that to a friend that’s got cancer. It’s like let’s think about how you would actually start a conversation with people. And I mean we’ve all got like, you know, these great beings, you can get copywriting templates and that on the, on the Internet and the kind of good luck to help you kick start some stuff. But I don’t believe in templates. Again, it gets back to that whole thing. If someone, you know what my drive and I depended on templates, then can I write copy, well, if you’re reliant on them, you can’t write copy. So I don’t use templates and plus my, my clients deserve fresh copy, not regurgitated, reconstituted crap from other people, you know? Right. So just with the authentic copy, just have an authentic conversation.

So what I would do and what a lot of my mentors have done is that I sit there and you know how you, you pick the one person you say, dear Jenny, I came across a thing that I really want and just write it out like a dirty first draft. Just write out a letter saying to them what this is? Why they need it? Any objections? And I know you’re probably sitting there thinking that, yeah, you’ve tried all these things before. Why would this work when everything else hasn’t worked? Well because this is backed up by science or this is blah, blah, blah. You know, that kind of stuff. The other things aren’t what they say that they are the ingredients. They say they’ve got this ingredient but they don’t have enough of that ingredient in it to make a difference kind of thing.

So that’s, that’s what you having the conversation, working at the objections that people come up with. One of the things that I came across when I was learning copy people… copywriters are so cheesy sometimes, they’ll say “but it’s not your fault”. I don’t use that because here’s the thing. It actually implies that somewhere someone has thought that it is their fault and up until then, and here’s the thing, when you’re writing authentic copy, think about the conversation that they’re having in their head. If they are like reading your letter or your copy and they haven’t thought that it’s their fault that you’ve just said, hey, it’s okay. It’s not your fault. They go, shit, I didn’t even seek it was my fault. Is it my fault? So you’ve actually planted the seed of doubt in their mind. So now they’re thinking about, is it, am I at fault here? And then not reading the rest of your copy. And that’s something that you want to do with your copies. You never want to let them go get off the page and go into a, into a thought or a thought stream of, um, you know, I’d like to, yeah, give them the picture that I want them to picture, not then go off in and create a difference.

Janet Beckers:                  The mind’s gone elsewhere. There’s one thing I just want to just backtrack, just to clarify for you, because we’ve talked about… well you’ve talked about templates and when it comes to templates, I always think of it, there’s like extremes I suppose. So there’s templates, which that’s how I started out. Like there was some software. Yeah, same. Yeah. It was like, okay, you know, you plug in, you know, it’ll ask you what’s the niche, you know, what’s the topic or what’s the… yeah. There were just really quite minor things that you had it in and then *beep sound*. He’s a salesman, so that’s the extreme. Yeah. Then you’ve got the other ones where it’s, okay, here’s the structure to follow and here are the bulk of the words already written. You’ve just got to personalize it somehow. Then you’ll have the next ones where it’s got well, okay, like it’s really pairing it down to you. Okay, well here’s a structure you need to follow because it needs to, you know, there’s no use telling what the solution is if you haven’t even addressed what the problem is or you know, you’ve got to say objections, but why would you have objections if you haven’t said this? So you’ve got the order that things happen or you’ve got the next level, which is stream of consciousness I suppose. So when you’re talking about not using templates at all, would you, is that talking about those first few ones where it’s got a lot of the words and it’s filling it in? Or do you also say, well, you don’t necessarily need to have a structure to just to…

Pauline Longdon:            You still need a structure and, so I’m saying that I don’t use templates, but I do use formulas.

Janet Beckers:                  That’s a good distinction.

Pauline Longdon:            Because formulas are applicable everywhere. And I mean, in life there are so many formulas, everything has got a formula to success. So the formula actually gives you the structure. So you know, like for writing copy, people would talk about problem, agitate, solve, you know, that’s a structure. And then you, you’ve got the, the formula around that. So you start out with the problem, then you agitate the problem and then you solve the problem. So one of my mentors, Tedd Nicholas, he put it in this kind of way. You give people a headache, you tell them that they’ve got a headache then you sell them the aspirin. It’s kind of like… but it’s not even that you give them the headache, you actually more or less know that they’ve got the headache, but they’re kind of putting it to the back of their mind. So you’re bringing that headache forward and saying “you’ve got a headache and this is what the headaches is doing. You haven’t got clarity..” and now here’s the solution.

The other one that you’ve got is, like, AIDA. So that’s Attention, Interest, Desire and then… whatever Action at the end. I mean, you can look on the internet, Google, I’m copywriting formulas and there’s like twenty hundred eleventy billion on there.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, and that’s where… because they all work. Like for me I got one that I use for absolutely everything. Yeah. My clients, like we’ve got to fit every single thing, cause there are so many formulas and they all work. This 7 step formula for absolutely everything from doing a 3 minute video to running a 3 day workshop to doing all the sales letter. It’s not that other ones don’t work, but I can’t remember that many.

Pauline Longdon:            But you know what you’re doing there though, and that’s fantastic that you do it. You’ve got A.) something that works for you, but B.) that gives you consistency and your voice, right?

It’s when people chop and change and try this one and this one and this one. And it’s like, you know, it’s, it’s like a dog’s breakfast, I call that franken-copy. And that’s why what I do with clients is I like to write the whole sales funnel from soup to nuts as the Americans would say, you know, from the Ad all the way through to the order form and that, because then it has the same marketing flow in the same voice and same everything. Whereas some people, you know, like we now hire a copywriter or get someone to write, they’ll go “I just need you to write these three pieces” or “Ah, you are too expensive so I’m going to get a cheaper copywriter on Fiverr” and so they splotch all these bits of copy together and then they go “Aw the copywriter sucked because nothing worked”.

It’s like, no. All the copy couldn’t work together because there was no flow. And you don’t have a consistent voice. Whereas Janet Beckers I know has a very consistent marketing voice and that’s important when you’re talking about your brand.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s great. So I love that idea of, you know, just start a comfort conversation, start writing and I love that if we get that, that that big tip is don’t write things that you wouldn’t say to people in person. Yeah. I mean that’s just really, that’s if you just keep, you keep that in your mind all the time. That is such a good tip in. So now let’s move on. So we’ve got some extra steps that you know for people to do authentically. So number one, just don’t go writing all that other stuff because it’s been proven to work in the past. What would you actually say? I love it.

Pauline Longdon:            Yeah. So the next one I would encourage people is not to worry about trying to impress your English teacher. So grammar does matter. But as a copywriter, we favor conversation over grammar. And the reason is that we know conversational copy works. So you know, your teacher would say to never start a sentence with “because” and “but”, and all these words. And in fact there are other copywriters out there that say, shall not use the word “that” well, I agree. Don’t use the word “that” all the time. But if you can write the word “that” in your copy and not remove it, then it’s meant to be there. So we talk about writing as you speak, but you know there is a limit to how many times you use the word “that” and you know it needs to come across as educated but not stifled. And that’s something like, cause you can get apps, and this is another good tip. You can get apps to check your writing. And I use Grammarly.

Janet Beckers:                  Oh yes, I’ve used that one as well.

Pauline Longdon:            And Hemingway and Hemingway has only got one “m” by the way. So people sometimes spell it wrong. So those apps are really good, but they can actually what I call new to your copy. So you’ve got this really powerful punchy copy. And then all of a sudden it’s like unnecessary ellipses, you know, the dot, dot, dot. And by the way, that’s a tip for young players. The ellipses are only ever three dots, not four, not two, not a hundred.

Janet Beckers:                  Yep, yep, I’m terrible at doing that one.

Pauline Longdon:            That’s a giveaway when people… you know that someone’s not really good at copy when they do more than three dots. The other thing is be conservative with your exclamation marks because that can actually make your copy come across very hype-y. And so with things like ellipses, with things like your exclamation marks and other things like even bolding certain things or italicizing bits of your copy, they often accentuate and to make things stand out. But if you use them everywhere, then nothing stands out. Use them sparingly.

Janet Beckers:                  I love it. They are really good tips cause I’ll see that all the time. People will try to make them sound themselves, sounds smarter, you know, going to take me seriously and by money if I don’t, you know, if I don’t sound educated and worthy of investing in where in fact it just makes you sound awkward.

Pauline Longdon:            You just reminded me of another tip. I wasn’t going to share this one, but you’ve just reminded, this is really worth it Janet. Write to a fifth grade level. So how do you find out what level you’re writing at? Well, I think Hemingway tells you, but also in Microsoft word, and I use Microsoft word all the time. I’m not a fan of Google docs because I don’t trust the cloud and other things. Anyway, I like to have my stuff where I can find it. So I use Microsoft word. And in Microsoft word, when you do your spellcheck, it will also ask if you want to do a grammar check and at the end it’ll come up with a table and it’s got like readability statistics and it’ll have like a Flesch Kincaid readability school, which is out of 100. So the closer to 100 you can get, the better. And it also has the grade level school and if you can get that, you know, around the fifth or sixth grade level, that’s great.

And also passive sentences, try to get them, you know, as close to zero as you can because passive sentences come across as weak. So you want to know what your readability is and that’s like, you know, all good copywriters need to know their readability stats.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, that is such a good tip! I’ve, I’ve never thought of using Microsoft word of doing that grammar check. That is, that is a great tip.

Pauline Longdon:            Because people talk about dumbing down your copy and I pushed back and resist it, that advice. Our readers are not dumb and a great copywriter said the consumer is not a moron, they’re your wife. And that was David Ogilvy who said that. So if you remember that, and that’s why I say write to someone that you love. You’re not going to treat your reader like a moron or an idiot. And so instead of dumbing your copy down, just simplify it. So if you can just say the same thing with a simpler word. Think like a 12 year old. Would a 12 year old understand the word “concept” or would using the word “idea” sound better? Just little differences and they make a big difference cause you know what? You know why it makes a difference is because people don’t have to think about words and then they don’t feel stupid if they don’t know what that word means.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, yeah. That’s, yeah, that’s brilliant. And it’s such a common mistake you’ve just given a whole wealth of like really simple, simple tips they have. Write all those down everybody, because they’re the things that is going to make it really easy for you. So when you’re actually… to have that extra check and to find the things that you can improve. So I think we’ve got enough time for one last quick one.

Pauline Longdon:            I was going to say, cause I really want to give this one. This one’s the one I wanted to give the whole show for. So we’ve spoken about writing in that… and writing is not without struggle. I’m not going to lie to anyone. You will struggle. So here’s my tip and this is what I give my students and people that I teach copy to. So just say you’ve got 60 minutes and you’re sitting, at the beginning of your 60 minutes you’re sitting there, you’re looking at the cursor blink or whatever and you’re thinking, man, what am I going to write about? So you’ve got a couple… It’s like sliding door moment. There are a number of different options open to you right then. You can sit there for 60 minutes and struggle and at the end of the 60 minutes you still got nothing on that page. Right? So that’s scenario number one.

Scenario number two is that you can sit there and force yourself to write some copy and just get it done. And option number three would be to get up, break your state, go for a walk. Or my favorite one is have a recalibration nap because my brain is a bit fried. So I’ll go and have a nap for 20 minutes but before I have a nap, I will put in my mind, okay, I need a headline and I need a lead or I need a big idea or I need something. But I put my subconscious mind on task and then I’ll go and have a nap and I set it to be like 20 minutes. I can guarantee you often I don’t last 20 minutes cause my mind after 10 minutes goes “got it!” So then what I do is I wake up and then I go up and I sit at my computer and I’m writing like a demon. I’m just like, I can barely type fast enough to keep up with my mind. So think about the three scenarios. Number one, you’ve got nothing to show at the end of it. Number two, you’ve got something to show at the end of it, but it’s forced and when you force writing, it turns out like crap and it reads like crap and it doesn’t connect. Option number three, you are refreshed and here’s the thing, in all three scenarios the same 60 minutes has passed.

Janet Beckers:                  Yeah, that’s brilliant. Normally the whole idea of this luxury of an afternoon nap, which by the way, like I am such a fan of like if I’ve got to have my afternoon now, um, is it’s just like a recalibration. Most people won’t do it. And I just think, oh look, that’s ridiculous. The indulgent, I’m not being productive. But that tiredness is such false productivity. So they go, Pauline has given you permission. Everybody you can have your afternoon nap. Yeah, that is brilliant. Like we were talking beforehand, the thing that I do is if I don’t have my nap, I have a painting, always a painting going and I paint circles. That’s my equivalent of the, you know, the 20 minute nap. It’s just that’s one thing that’s going to let your brain completely go blank. They are such brilliant tips. We’ve covered so much. We’ve gone from really, really great ways on how to get super clear on who you’re talking to and how to talk to them.

We’ve talked about how to get your mindset straight so that you can be writing. We’ve talked about how to, you know, really, um, you know, just write as if it was just you. Like, you know, how would you talk, don’t start trying to make things that sound clever, but they’re not you. Like you wouldn’t use, you know, stop trying to impress your English teacher and really valuable, really practical things that you can be doing right now that’s going to help you, you know, be like a pro and then that, you know, you’ve got that limited amount of time, you know, sharpen the sword. So get your, get your mind blank and then just get power in writing. I mean that’s, you know, just those big topics is go in there. So now for everybody that you know, for people who’d like to get to know you more Pauline, what’s the best way that they can do that.

Pauline Longdon:            They can go to my website. It’s and if they go to the I have a portfolio. Also I send out what I call a weekly knowledge nugget and some… it’s like a newsletter it’s not actually an email. It’s a long newsletter and a lot of people have said it’s like a marketing seminar in an email. So I’d be happy if people want to check it out, they can subscribe. Stay as long as you want and then if you don’t get any benefit from it just unsubscribe. But it’s a good example of showing… Cause what I do is I start out with a story, and tie in a knowledge nugget, which is an actionable thing. And then I tell them, you know, how to implement it into their own life

Janet Beckers:                  That’s brilliant. I love it. And so, and if people, um, are wanting to work with you so they can come to you, you can be their copywriter. And so Pauline and I were talking about, she’s quite well known over in the United States, but not as much in Australia. And there is some intricacies in the language that are really important to make sure that you get right. So, you know, especially for my audience, I have somebody that is such an expert at doing copywriting and then also knowing that your, you know, you already write for the worldwide so people can come to you for copywriting and then also they can come to you if they wanting to be mentored to learn to write their own copy or write copy for others. Yeah, that’s brilliant. So I would love to hear from you.

When you’re listening to this, you know, what were your ah-ha’s? So one of the best feedbacks, you know, the best thing for Pauline and for I is we love hearing from you. So either wherever you’re listening to this podcast, you can either leave some of your feedback. If you’re on iTunes, I’d love it if you’d leave some feedback on the you know, as a review and just say like, what did you learn? Um, if it’s on the, on the podcast page, leave a comment or just come and find us over on social media. You’ll find us both there on all the different social media platforms. Drop us an email either way, but the best thing is just tell us what did you learn? And for me, what action did you take? So one of the things that I’ve got for you to help you to take action is we have a worksheet that goes exactly with this podcast to help you to take action on the things that Pauline has talked about today. So use that as the guide to go with this cause it’ll actually help you to take action this week and let us know what action you talk. And that would be totally awesome. Thank you so much for your time today, Pauline. I’m just so stoked we have finally got to you know, to really connect and to, um, for me to introduce you to everybody and thank you so much. Stick value. Yeah. Thank you. Happy to share. Okay. Bye everybody!

How To Think of Creative Marketing Ideas Even When You Feel Stuck

How To Think of Creative Marketing Ideas Even When You Feel Stuck

Can you relate to this?

You have a new product or service to launch, or even an old promotion you want to revamp, and you feel stuck. You just can’t think of any creative marketing ideas that will make you stand out from the crowd.

Don’t worry, you’re not alone.

If you’re like me, some days you’re on fire and you’re an Innovative, Think-Outside-The-Box, Creative Marketing Ideas DIVA!

Most days, you’re still staring at the screen, waiting for inspiration, an hour after you said to yourself “OK think of something creative!”

It was during one of my “DIVA” moments I developed a simple strategy I can use every single time I’m stuck in “non-superhero-Janet” mode to quickly tap into creativity. I’ve been using it for years in my own business and with my clients and it works every time.

In today’s short masterclass podcast episode:

  • I teach you this deceptively simple strategy I call The 4th Win Test. 
  • I show you EXACTLY How and when to use it and I have even created a downloadable cheat sheet so you can follow the process every time  you have a new promotion, new product, services or joint ventures.
  • I also give you 3 different examples of how I have applied the 4th Win Test to projects I am working on RIGHT NOW. I find the concept so much easier to use after hearing real-life examples.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

Click the image below to download the BONUS worksheet!

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d love for you to take a quick minute to share your thoughts with us and leave an honest review and rating for the show over on iTunes!

Read The Transcript Here

Hello and welcome! Janet Beckers here. I’ve got a special episode for you today of Romance Your Tribe Radio. Get out your note taking material because today is a step-by-step masterclass on using the fourth win test in all of your marketing material. Now, what on earth is the fourth win test and why would you use it? So before I dive into what the fourth win test is, why would you use this? And to do this, I’ll explain to you how I first developed this idea so you can see why it’s important to use. You see my second core business that I had run, Wonderful Web Women, which is the precursor to Romance Your Tribe. It was when I finally thought, you know what? I tried doing everything the way that… Just following the books. But you know what it’s very hard to stand out from everybody because I’m doing the same things as everybody else, but you don’t want to just be a rebel for a rebel’s sake.

So that’s when I thought, okay, everybody talks about a win-win. What can I do when it comes to my marketing? To get not just a win, win, win, but what can I do to get a fourth win? What can I do that is going to make me really think outside the box and see if I can take any of my marketing efforts, any of my program creation efforts to the next level simply by having an exercise that makes me think outside the square. That’s what I did when I launched Wonderful Web Women. And the way that I then approached my marketing meant it took off really, really fast. Were talking going from having nobody on my mailing list to a list of thousands in less than eight weeks, to winning awards for Australian marketer of the year. Basically, based on what I’m going to be teaching you today. The things that I did were different to what everybody else was doing, but not radically so, but enough that it caught people’s attention and it still continues to do that.

So that’s what I’m going to be teaching you today. This simple simple exercise that you can be using today that is gonna make you think outside the square and make it so that you can come up with that little tweak, a different way of doing things. That means that you are going to stand out from the crowd. Sound good? So that’s what we’re going to do today. So I’m going to introduce you to the concept of the fourth win test. It’s very, very simple for you to understand and then to make it very easy for you to then see, well how do I apply it? I’m going to run you through three examples that I am doing right now in my business so you can see how does it work. So how does that sound? So first of all, what is the fourth win test?

So when it comes to any kind of marketing or creating a new program, doing even something like running a podcast like I am now, I want you to think about, first of all, who are the main parties that are involved? So it’s very, obviously it’s going to be you, but if there is you, what else can you be doing? Is there another party? Well of course there’s going to be, if you’re marketing something there’s going to be the people who are going to be buying whatever it is. But are there other different groups, you know, people that… Not just that could be involved, but what can you do to give them a huge benefit? It may be people who never buy your program. What can you be doing? It may be people who… There could be some sort of joint venture partners that you could get involved.

Whatever groups you’ve got, I want you to think about the next level of what sort of win is there. Who are the different parties so that it’s not just you and one other person winning. What can you be doing now? It’s not difficult to get to the third one. And you’ll see when I go through, it’s through examples. It can be quite difficult to come up with the fourth. But when you do, then quite often you can come up with a fifth and the sixth and every time you do that it gets more and more creative and much more exciting. So let me run you through examples cause that is the best way that I can teach you. So let’s just start with this podcast. So I’ve got some notes here so I could work out those different groups for you. So these are, these are the ones that are going to be very, very typical for any podcast that you are doing when you’re interviewing people.

So one of those is okay, what is in it for me? Right? So for me, this is a way of me being able to continually give great content to people who are already existing customers and to new people so that they get to see what I stand for. They get to know that I know my stuff and it means that they’re more likely to become clients. And when they do show an interest in buying, it’s going to be a really easy sale. So for me, that is the benefit. And there’s lots of other benefits that come from that as well. I get to have great contacts from the people who I interview and a lot of those go on to do other, um, you know, promotions and things with me. So that is me. That’s an obvious one. The number, the next one that you’ve got is, well, what about, um, the people who aren’t the interviewing?

Of course, you know, I could be doing a podcast where nobody is getting interviewed. That’s what I’m doing right now. And I alternate with my guest and then me teaching. Now for the guest, well we’ve got to think about what’s in it for them. That’s why every time before I start an interview with somebody, we spend some time beforehand. And my first question to them is, what’s gonna be the best thing for you to get out of this? What do you want? Are you wanting to get new leads? Have you got a promotion coming up, a book coming up? What is the best thing that you can do? What do you want to be known for? How can I help you? So that’s what I’m also approaching. So I want to get great content, but I want to know what am I doing to make this a true win for you?

That’s number two. These are pretty obvious ones. The next one of course is the listeners. I want to be thinking, right, well, you know anybody that comes and listens to this, it’s not going to be waffle. I want to make sure that people are getting really, really good value. I want to be able to say, I could sell this content and people would pay for it. I want it to be that good. So for those people, that’s the third when I’m making sure that the content is actionable. That’s why I always have a focus on what are the action steps that you can take this week. So that is from me deciding what’s in it for them. What makes it different is it got to be about action because that is really important for me to help people to get stuff done. Then the fourth one is now you can start thinking a little bit creatively.

So when I think about all of these relationships, what are other potential relationships here that I could be thinking about? What can I be doing for these people? Some of these might be the person who I’m interviewing their clients or it might be um, other, other people who I know, but I really obvious one to think about is what about my existing clients? Is there something that I can be doing that’s going to help them? And of course, making sure that it is a win win all around. And so you may have noticed that I have recently started to profile some of my own clients on these interviews. Now, it doesn’t mean that simply by enrolling in one of my programs, even in one of my VIP programs, that you are guaranteed of a expert spot, that’s not going to happen because I need to make sure that it’s also going to be giving benefit to the people who listen to me.

And people listened to this podcast. So of course they’re interested in certain topics. They want to grow their business. Um, so if I have a guest that has something that’s not of interest to my target market, well they can’t be a guest. Um, and also they have to have done the work, you know, they have to have got results. So that’s the next thing that goes. So there, it’s not a given that every single person is. But for the people who taking action, getting results, if we can have a story that is going to benefit the listeners who are turning up because they, they’re looking for specific things and it’s going to benefit me, well that is fantastic. So, um, sometimes that focus may be on what they have done in their business as a result of working with me. And it’s not all about me, it’s about them.

Because honestly, you know, they’re the people doing the work. It’s their, their results. I’m the guide and helping. So that could be the story or it could be that their particular topic is absolutely perfect for my clients, for my listeners. So in that case, they get to, um, you know, we talk more about what it is that they do. So that is just a simple way where I can be thinking, what is a fourth group? What can I be doing that’s going to be helping my clients? And it also becomes a bit of an aspirational milestone for people that, you know what, if you take action with what I’m doing and you get the results, if you stick with it and you get the results, I’m going to love having you on my podcast. So it’s something for people to work towards as well.

So that is a fourth win. So that is one example. Now, let me share another one with you and I will just have this here. Okay. So, um, at the time of me recording this, I’m in the middle of putting together a brand new program that I am, that I know that people are needing because it’s something that I’ve already been helping clients with and there’s a gap that I’ve got an area where I’m going, you know what? I get to people to this particular point. And unless they’re one of my VIP clients, I can’t help them any further. So I want to be able to help them. So I have started putting together a program that I’m going to be launching. Um, you know it within, it’s going to be within this quarter and it’s going to be called the Attract Your Tribe Academy. Now, just a little bit of a, so you know what’s coming up now at the time as I’m doing this, there’s two things that I’m doing.

Number one is I’m organizing actually creating the offer. What is it that I’m going to be doing? What am I going to be giving people? How am I going to be helping them? There’s that part of it. And then there’s another part where I’m thinking, okay, well I’ve got to announce this to the world. What am I going to set up to promote it? So for both of these, I’ve challenged myself to come up with a fourth win test. So with these, with the academy is we have, I have a lot of really good training material templates, all of these sorts of things. And I also have my input that I’m going to be giving people so people can get some access to me to help them. But I thought, you know what, the thing that’s really going to help my members a lot is there are people who are experts who are great at the things that they do, that it’s not my expertise.

You know, I’m, I don’t have to be an expert in everything. There are other people in particular topics that that’s all they do when they’re super good at it. So if I can bring in somebody else who’s going to be providing content, um, and some sort of teaching, well that is going to be a win for me because I can give greater content, greater results. And it’s a win for the members. That is a really good thing. So then the next thing to think about is of course, well there’s the third group is who is, you know, Mike is the expert. What can I be doing with them? So for each of them I’ve said to them, you know what? I want to know what’s going to be a great win for you. What do you want to get out of that? And then with them, I’ve also challenged them around the fourth win.

So for most of these it’s going to be, you know what, let’s create some content together that’s going to really help people. And for them, usually it is going to be, you know what, Janet, my ideal clients are also the kind of people attracted to this program. So I know that if I can show them how great I am at what I do, then some of those will become my clients or they will refer other people to me. So now getting that opportunity to be able to build that trust is a really good opportunity for people. That is one part of it. And there’s other little things that for some people we’ve kind of worked out that are things that are really going to help them as well. Um, now the other thing I thought was, okay, are there any other relationships as part of this?

Is there something else here that we can do now with some of these people that I have been talking to, it actually comes down to their clients. Now you might think, well, how do you make it so that them getting involved in my, uh, membership? How is it going to help their clients? So then we can think about it in those ways. Some of those ways may be we have a special deal just for their clients. Another great way, and this has been coming up with two of these people, is they actually have a program where they are training other people to have the same level of expertise as them. They are training people to build a business on their expertise. The thing that they master in this and, and each of these is to do with copywriting or generating traffic, those sorts of things.

So they’re… people who they know know their stuff and they’re going to be looking for clients. What if we can find a way to make it so that we can actually match people together? And how about if we can do it in a way where it’s going to be a really good deal for my members and a fantastic opportunity for these other people? What can we do there? So that’s just an example that I’ve got at the moment on creating a program and with every single person that I’m inviting onto the faculty, cause they’re all handpicked as I’m going through them personally going, yeah let’s work out a win. Like what’s really in it for you? And let’s see if there is a fourth party and what can we do for there. And so it’s really nice way of building up that creativity in us thinking outside the square.

Now when it comes to the promotion and getting the message out there, I’ve also been thinking about that as well, about what can I be doing that there are different groups. So there are a few things here that I’ve come up with. So here are just the first four groups, and this is one I know that I’m going to be coming up with more of these as well, is I thought, well what can I be creating that I have got that’s really going to help brand new clients that come into this membership they already have? Like it’s awesome. You know, all these things that are basically done for you and all these worksheets that you just go through and it’s going to simplify things for you. There’s lots of, and plus lots of, you know, accountability done for you, done with you.

Like you know, let’s get stuff done. There’s all of that. But I thought, what else can I do that’s going to make it really, really simple for people. And one of those is I thought, you know what? I’m going to create success maps so people know exactly what order, what resource to spend time on depending on what stage they’re at in their business online. So that for some people they’ll all be going through the same process. But for some people I can say, I just want you to do the bare minimum of this and you can skip this one and you’ve got to spend as long as you can until you’ve nailed this one. But somebody at a different level of business is going to be doing it differently. So success maps so that people can even streamline even faster. It could be that they’re coming in and there’s only really one main thing that they need to know.

They will be able to tell from the success map, there, there, there, that’s it. This is the thing that I need to focus on. Oh, I didn’t think that that there was important, but Janet just pointed out it has to be done. So that will really help people as an extra tool. So then I thought, okay, so that’s an extra thing that’s really gonna help the clients. This is as part of the promotion, so this is something that they will get. Now, what else can I be doing? Well, I know that there’s going to be helping me because it’s going to help me to get my clients even faster results, which means that they will stay, they’ll stay being clients with me. That’s why I do get good retention rates because I focus on what’s gonna get them so that they will get better results.

So then another one to think about is, all right, well what about people who don’t even become customers? You know, what can I be doing that’s going to make it a win for them? So that’s got me thinking, all right, so these success maps that I’m putting together for my clients, can I create a version that shows them, you know, here’s how you can make your decisions and whether you come to me to be able to master those particular parts and get the extra templates to make it fast. Or if you think you can do it on your own, either way, you’ve got a version of the success map that means it’ll tell you what you need to do. So then that becomes something that is a great benefit to help people. So it’s not just going to be buy this, buy this, buy this. It’ll be okay, work out your path. Do you want my help? Yeah. So that’s one of those tools.

Now the next one that I can think about then is, well, what about my existing clients? What can I be doing as part of the promotion that’s going to help them? So there’s a few ways you can do this. One will be a special, a special offer for existing clients. You know, you, I like to reward loyalty. So there’s a special offer for those. But even more, if people are taking action with what you do, tell their story, give them an opportunity to tell their story. And so ask them what is it that’s going to be able to, part of what parts of your story do we want to focus on. So it’s not just a matter of a testimonial, I got results. It’s about what’s going to help you to grow your business.

So what part of your story will we focus on? Because they you at the moment looking for new clients, new leads. Are you looking to get joint venture partners? Are you looking to um, be known, you know, and to to be a podcast guest for example. Less focus on what it is that you want. And let’s share that part of your story. This can all happen as part of a promotion as part of a launch. So I’ve just given you their three examples that you can be watching as I do this because they’re actually happening right now in my business. So, you know, peak behind the curtains that you can see. So this is a process that I’m using myself at the moment and I’m having very transparent conversations with people saying to them, okay well what is in it for you? What’s the best thing that you can get out of this?

And can we think of another group? Lets just between us really creatively see if we can brainstorm and come up with a fourth win, we can do it. So that’s now over to you is now I’ve got a special worksheet for you that you can download. I’m, this is my new thing that I’m trialing at the moment in with the podcasts is and is to give you some kind of action worksheet that you can use every single podcast episode because I really want you to take action. So if you, uh, if you’re on iTunes and you’re just listening to this, come over to the podcast page and you will see there, apart from, you can watch the video and the transcript is there and the show, but you can also download the worksheet so that you can use this all the time as a prompt for every time you do any kind of promotion in your business that can help walk you through the fourth win test.

Okay. I would love to hear from you, is this something that you’ve learned from me previously? If you’ve been one of my clients, have you used this and I’d love to see examples of what did you come up with when you went looking for the fourth, when is this new to you? I would love to hear how you’re thinking of using it and any aha’s that you had. Now you can do that by dropping me an email. You can leave a comment on the podcast page. I would love it if you would leave a really honest review for me over on iTunes cause that will help other people to be able to discover this. I’d really appreciate if you’d do that, and that might be just sharing what you’ve learned on this particular podcast would be great. I’m so please do that. And, um, most importantly, my challenge to you is to take action this week. So download that worksheet that I’ve got for you. And think about either something you’ve got coming up or something you’ve already been doing that you might be able to add that creative twist to simply by applying at the fourth win test. That’s my challenge to you. What can you do to add your own flavor and, you know, increase your impact, amplify the impact you’ll have through everything that you’re doing. That’d be great. Okay, go get them folks. Bye.

Case Study. From Start Up To Booked Out FAST

Case Study. From Start Up To Booked Out FAST

Why is it some people struggle for years in business and then others, in the same industry, seem to have meteoric success in just a very short time?

Today you get the rare opportunity to go behind the scenes in a transparent case study of one such business.  

Kate Perkins is one of my VIP clients whose business was just 6 months old when we started working together. Kate is a cancer rehab occupational therapist and lymphedema therapist, specifically focus on women with breast cancer. She helps those who have been diagnosed with cancer and who are either undergoing treatment or recovering, to become stronger and regain their strength and vitality.

From Start Up To Booked Out and Expanding International FAST

When we met, Kate had worked hard to get her first few clients. In the 18 months since then, together we cracked the code to attract perfect clients and Kate’s business is now booked out, she has become a sought-after specialist and joint-venture partner with the leaders in her industry, she has opened her own clinic (instead of hiring a room in someone else’s clinic part time) and is about to launch her first international online program. All while being a mum to a pre-schooler and living a coastal surfing life!

Because I’ve been working closely with Kate, I’ve got to see what makes her unique. This rapid rise did not happen by chance.

You’ll see what it is about Kate that I would just like bottle up and gift to every single person that I know! We’re going to pull that apart and uncover things that everybody can model. Then we’ll  look step-by-step at the exact strategies Kate used to get the fastest results with the least amount of effort.

In this episode we discuss:

  • The time-line of Kate’s growth and the pivot point when this started to grow FAST
  • How Kate narrowed her niche
  • Starting small and thinking big
  • Marketing to people who already have your customers
  • The unique strategy Kate uses to get consistent referrals from specialists
  • What to do when you get no clients for 7 months
  • Systemise what is already working and ramp it up
  • Good, Better , Best goals and how Kate 5x her Good goal in the first month
  • Relationships and joint ventures
  • What makes a joint venture work (and what are red flags that it won’t)
  • An insight into the mind of a true achiever, and what you can model.
  • Driven by vision (and a surfing story)


Plus a special podcast bonus for you today. A bonus worksheet for you to download  “The Joint Venture Partnerships Prep Worksheet to attract the perfect clients without advertising”.


You can check out the brilliant free video training Kate has created to help women who have had breast cancer surgery start to regain strength and movement in their arms.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

Click the image below to download the BONUS worksheet!

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

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Read The Transcript Here

Janet Beckers:          Hello and welcome. Janet Beckers here and welcome to Romance Your Tribe Radio and I have got a very, very special guest for you today, Kate Perkins. Good day Kate!

Kate Perkins:             Hi Janet. Thank you for having me. I’m very excited to be here.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah, I am too. Look everybody, I want you to get your notepaper out however it is that you take notes with it’s pen and paper or on your computer, get ready because today we are going to be acting as a real kind of case study, but a real insight into what does it take to take your business from like one or two clients through to booked out, expanding like, you know, just fantastic to watch in an exceptionally short amount of time. So, and this is what Kate’s done. So we’re going to have a look at what’s happened in Kate’s business in just in what period of time. Kate, are we talking about here?

Kate Perkins:             It’ll be two years in July, so not quite two years yet. Yeah, so not quite two years.

Janet Beckers:          We’re going to see what it’s, you know, the exact steps and this rapid rise and, and then we’re going to look at, okay, how did that happen? Because it did not happen by chance. Now I’ve been working closely with Kate, so I’ve got to see what makes her unique. What is it about Kate that I would just like bottle up and gift to every single person that I know? You know, what is it about Kate that has meant that this has not been by chance? So we’re going to pull that apart about not just as we to look at the mindset things about what makes Kate unique and these are things that everybody can model. And then we’re actually going to look at the strategies, the strategies that Kate used to be able to get the fastest results with the least amount of effort.

I’m not saying no effort, but the least amount of effort, the most targeted way. So that’s what we’re going to look at today. So get ready to take notes because we’re going to be explaining all of this to you in a way that you can now apply it to your business. So, so first of all, Kate really, really quick intro, like who is it that you help? Like what is your business and who is it that you help?

Kate Perkins:             So I am a cancer rehab occupational therapist and lymphedema therapists and my focus is on helping those who have been diagnosed with cancer and who are undergoing treatment or are recovering to help them become stronger and regain their strength and vitality. I guess to do what they love doing.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. Fantastic. And you know, the thing that is absolutely key here is you’re an occupational therapist and occupational therapists can cover such an incredibly wide, um, you know, ways that you can be working with people, but yours is very, very specific lymphedema.

So that’s when you get all, you know, swelling from your lymph nodes. So specifically lymphedema, even narrower, it’s for people with cancer to do with Rehab. And as we’ll be talking about soon for this very first part that’s been building your business, you’ve narrowed it even further for in Stage one of the growth of your business. It’s really helping a lot with women who’ve had breast cancer. So yes, I think that this is a really important thing for people to note that this, making these decisions, narrowing things down has been really core to why the strategies that we’re going to be discussing, why they’ve worked. If you had stayed broad of I’m an occupational therapist, um, or even I’m an occupational therapist who specializes in Lymphedema, it would’ve been harder, would have been harder for you to get. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s, that’s really point number one.

I want everybody to take, so think about your own business. How narrow are you going? Like what can you do that you can be even more specific to help a certain group of people? That’s just one thing I want you to ask yourself now Kate, let’s just have a look. Let’s do a little bit of a timeline to start with of the main phases in your business over this last two years. And then we’re going to pull those apart later and we’ll talk about at each step, how did that happen? So let’s do an overview of it first. So do you want to just tell us like right at the very beginning, um, maybe for the first few months, what, you know, what did your business look like?

Kate Perkins:             Okay. So I had just finished the qualifications as a lymphedema therapist and it was literally through that course that I was thinking that lymphedema is quite broad. So it wasn’t until the end of that course where we discussed breast cancer related lymphedema and how that can prevent be prevented is when I, a light bulb went off and I’ve thought to myself, there is definitely a gap in services being provided where I am in particular. I’m in the central coast of new south wales. So it was in April, two years ago, literally straight up to that, that qualification that, um, I knew that’s where my focus was going to be. So in developing, those services for the early monitoring, process of for breast cancer led lymphedema. And basically that’s where it started. Excellent.

Janet Beckers:          And so when you decided to start there, did you run your business from home? Did you run it? Were you working for somebody else? Where, how did you start out?

Kate Perkins:             Uh, I literally started from scratch and I found the perfect space. So a shared space, um, with other health practitioners Yep. And literally started with zero patients. So I set up all the basics, I’m getting my provider number. Got the tools of the trade. So what’s called an LDX unit. It was a u 400, right at that point, um, which measures the levels of, uh, fluid within the tissue. So that was the piece of equipment that I needed, um, to have to do. You got a big outlay of equipment before you even got your first client. So you are really, taking a risk on yourself that this was going to work to get that first. Yes. Yeah, to get that. So when we met, you already had a few clients. So how did you get those first clients?

I did, education sessions with a gps and some specialists, but it wasn’t, straight away that I received referrals from specialists because I still had to do that. They didn’t catch on straight away. So I continually did educate. I shouldn’t around, breast cancer related lymphedema. How I could help their patients in particular. Yep. so at the start it was, um, general lymphedema, um, conditions that I was saying from GPs. So I would get the trickling, um, from one GP and then I would get back out there and do more education sessions with the GP in the area, to get their referrals.

Janet Beckers:          Excellent. Now the thing that I really liked here, and this is, one of the things that’s we talked about when you first started and came and worked with me was I love that you didn’t try to go out and just find the clients yourself. You identified straight away that you know, these people have already got to go and see doctors before, you know, in order to even know that they need some help. So they’re going to go and see doctors, they’re going to stay and see specialists. So that was really wise that instead of just trying to advertise to everybody is you went to the people who had your clients. So that’s a really sensible thing to do. But I think another thing that I really picked up that you’ve done there, Kate, is you don’t, it doesn’t work immediately. It’s a bit of a long game because first of all, you know, they’ve got to remember, you know, they’ve got to be educated. So you’re going to get into, you know, run a session to let them know what you can do. You’ve got to wait for them to get the right client. You’ve got to wait for them to remember that, oh yeah, there is Kate that can do it and then they come to you. So a lot of people will give up if they didn’t get a referral from the first, one that they did. So I think that that is a really important thing for people to note here is you didn’t give up when you didn’t get results immediately. Um, so can you, can you remember back then how long it took for you to get that first? Yeah. Think about it.

Kate Perkins:             The first client or the first referral from one of the specialists?

Janet Beckers:          Oh, whichever one was the most significant for you.

Kate Perkins:             Look, I think it was the most significant.First of all was my first patient. Yeah. And that was a referral from, a physio where I was sharing the rooms. And, uh, it was probably a couple of weeks. It was a couple of weeks. And, I very vividly remember that, um, that very first appointment I was actually quite nervous. Um, I was very, uh, well I’m always thorough. But yeah, I can remember back then it was very special and I still have that, particular client with me.

Janet Beckers:          That is fantastic. You know, it’s funny like, okay, I still remember my very, very first client that I had through wonderful web women and I spent $37 with me. And honestly you would have thought it was 37,000 like that. first person we had, we would, there was dancing. There was partying. I was so nervous. Are they going to like us? I so get it. So yeah, that first one is so important. So there’s an important thing that you, obviously you had your outlays that you had from your equipment that you put yet it’s not cheap. You also had, you know, you were paying rent, you were had your had premises that you had revised, all of those other ones. That’s a big risk to type to anybody that always comes in business. So, and that was weeks before you even got the very first clients. So again, this is another lesson. It’s trusting that they’re going to come, you know, trusting that you put things in place and you’re not just waiting, you are actually communicating about what you do. Now let’s look at the next stage. Um, so what was the next stage thing that you think happened in your business?

Kate Perkins:             I think instead of sitting there, um, and just waiting around and twiddling my thumbs in that time that I was, quiet, I was continually upgrading my qualifications. So I was continually, increasing my knowledge around, at that time, breast cancer rehabilitation, which involves scar tissue management, and the assistants involved and just I evolved as a practitioner in that time as well.

Janet Beckers:          That is a really, really good point because as we will find out, you actually investing in your professional development in that specific niche has actually been an important thing when we get up to the, not to the stage that you’re at now, that you’ve got that credibility as well, not just for the clients but to the people who are going to refer you as well. So that’s a really good point is so you’re investing your time into the education of the GPs and the specialists. So getting them to know what you do and then also investing in yourself. So you’ve got, you’re aiming for excellence in what you do. That’s brilliant. So the next phase then that came in your business, so then you started getting a rapid growth in your clients. Would that be the next stage, do you think?

Kate Perkins:             I would think that the flow of the patients, um, started most all around. Um, when I had my first referral from a breast surgeon. So with services that I provide around early monitoring for breast cancer related lymphedema, we need to get the patient in, prior to starting their breast cancer treatment to get a healthy baseline reading of in this case, healthy baseline of level of fluid within the tissue is, which is an L-Dex reading. So at that point it took… started in the April. It wasn’t until the November, November of the same year was the first specialist referral and after that it’s really started picking out, it started getting traction.

Janet Beckers:          Right. So from the fourth months to the 11th month, yeah. So seven months before the strategy that you were using of the education to the specialist before you got the referral. Again, most people would have given up by then, so, but in the scheme of things when we’re going to see like it’s only been two years and it’s, you know, the growth has been huge, but up until then you were sharpening the sword. Basically. It’s that classic line. If you’ve got to chop down a tree, you know you’re going to spend, you know if you’ve got four hours to do it, you’ll spend three hours sharpening the axle. This story is the classic thing. So that’s what you were doing at that stage. That’s brilliant. ,Now those referral, I remember when we started working together and we were looking at I k what’s going to be the best thing for you to be focusing on to be able to get your business because we wanted to make it so that your head, you know you’re full customer books. Before we started doing anything online, I remember, this was one of the things is that we went, okay, well this is what’s working for you. This is what’s working really well is the referrals. What can we do to systemize this so that it doesn’t become ad hoc and that as you start getting busy that it doesn’t get dropped. And I remember that was one of the first things we did is worked out okay, how many phone calls are you going to make per week two, those two and how many appointments are you going to get?

How many presentations are you going to do so that we can systemize it and this, there are so many other things that you could have focused on putting your, your effort to and any expenses to. But the big thing, he was, well, what’s already working? Let’s just double down on that rather than trying to spread yourself too thin. I can remember Kate, when we started with that. Can you remember when we said, okay, let’s do good, better, best goals for this? I think it was for them for the month. Was that, or I think for the month it was for month.

Kate Perkins:             And so that was in the January, January of 2018 that we started, I started working with you and that’s when we set those goals also instead of good was having two patients per new, two new patients per month. And then, um, that I was for the best with that. And I think in that very first month I had, I knew 8 new patients. So yeah, we just the well the good bit and we got to the best,

Janet Beckers:          actually I can remember it was 10. Yes, it was 10, 10. Because I can still remember going wow. Because when we set those two, four, eight, you know, the eight is meant to be like the real stretch. But yeah, because, and then this is, this all comes down to Kate here because we worked out, all right, let’s do a double down on this strategy, the strategy that is working. And then this is one of the things that I really want people to notice is we’ll talk about the good, better, best in a moment and how that works really well. But once we identified what pain had to do, there was some cut. There was this pushing yourself out of your comfort zone in there because it’s making, you know, you’re making phone calls, getting appointments, getting knock backs. That’s a lot of people. I’ve given a very, you know, let’s do a similar strategy, not the same strategy that you’ve done, but it’s going to have to be, you know, pushing yourself out of your comfort sign and contacting people. They won’t do it, whereas you just went, right. That’s what I’ve got to do, I’m doing it and look how it paid off. Like just your focus and discipline and you know what? This is out of it. You know, it makes me feel uncomfortable, but I’m just gonna do it. And that’s the result you get. So it sounds

Kate Perkins:             Like it’s enough really. Funny because what I’ve come to realize that actually no one else was doing that and um, I couldn’t understand why no one else was doing that. Right.

Janet Beckers:          It’s funny you say this quite a bit. I don’t get it. I don’t get why people don’t. And that is the mentality that you want to have. This whole, I think idea of most, a lot of people will go, oh, I haven’t made those phone calls or I haven’t sent those emails, or I didn’t send that letter because of x, x, x, x, x excuse. Because really, it pushes people out of your comfort zone. But you, I’ll find that Kate says, this is quite a lot. I don’t get it. Why don’t people do it? It’s because you’re not going to second guess, bottle that beer, Kate because that simple attitude of honor. Get it while people don’t do it because I’m doing it without thinking about it. I’m not with that. Well, without questioning it is the thing that gets the results. It’s not rocket science. It is that incredible. Yeah. Let’s just do it. So and it’s probably something that you take for granted, Kate, when you go, I don’t get it. Why people don’t do it. Other people from the outside will look at it and go, I can’t believe how focused and disciplined and brave she’s been. And for people who are listening, which one do you want to be really? Which one do you want to be the one that’s looking at other people going? How brave is she and the all the other side going, I don’t get it. Why aren’t you doing it? So, so that that kept on progressing didn’t it? You know, you just kept on doing it.

Kate Perkins:             Yeah. I still do it.

Janet Beckers:          That’s the nice part. Now, now you’re busy cause that’s, so if we’ve sort of kind of condensed, because for me that this next phase has been every single weight Kate turning up to our group calls going, oh I’ve just had the best week yet. I’ve just had the best week yet. I’ve just had the best month yet because you just kept on working that simple plan, that one strategy that worked and you focused on doing it exceptionally well. Now I think at this point it’s probably good for us to now talk a little bit about joint ventures cause we have, you know, I was going to do the summary and then we’ll go into the strategies, but let’s cover it here because I think it’s going to help people to see why the next phase is happening. So you talked about, you know, the first referral from a specialist took seven months of you doing this strategy, not as um, you know, totally doubling down on it. But doing that strategy. Now this is the thing is once you get one, then it’s, it can start to snowball if you do things right or it can just stop if you, if you don’t kind of realize what it is that you were doing. Well. So let’s talk a little bit about, you say you got that first referral. What happened then? Like how did the referrals keep on coming? Was it coming from you getting the new people that you were doing the education with? Was it more referrals from the one person? Was it, you know, them telling their mates, you know, when they get together in their, you know, surgeons Booze up, you know,

Kate Perkins:             A bit of both really because when you have a look at the medical team that’s involved, there’s um, the surgeons, the oncologist, the radiation oncologist, um, and their GPs and breast care nurses. So I need to communicate with that whole team, to let them know what I’m doing and how I’m helping their patients recover. So it was a bit of both of the communication between the specialists themselves but also my communication individually with them. And so it widens that referral base.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. And I think this, this is an important thing here is you’ve mentioned the word communication quite a few times and this is something I think is, but some people just get totally wrong when it comes to communicating. And we’ll go into this joint venture referral type, relationship. I’ll dive into that a little bit more in the theory that I use around power imbalances in a moment. But where people go wrong a lot is they either go, oh, I okay, you know, I’m trying to build my business. So that it’s going to be as hands off and automated as possible. I get this a lot because people come to me looking for automation stuff. We haven’t even started, we didn’t even start talking about the automation stuff for nearly a year, you know, setting it up. A lot of times people will just try to go too hands off with the communication and they’ll try to automate as many stuff. So in that case they might’ve had some sort of follow up emails that went to the different surgeons or you know, they would have automated a lot of those sorts of things. They either do that or they go the other side and they go, oh, that was great that they got it. I’ll wait now for the next referral. So they’re, they’re inactive. They don’t follow up. And the thing that I’ve noticed particularly about UK is you’re actually having phone calls, you know, you’re ringing people up, your sending messages, you’re letting them know what you’re up to. You’re building relationships and you know what, they’re just humans, you know, even if these may be people who have got, from your point of view, may have a lot of power in the relationship because they’re the ones that with the clients, they’re the ones that are, you know, amazing at what they do. It can be incredibly intimidating to try to contact people like that. But they’re people, they’re humans. So, yes. So I’m curious about when it comes to you building those relationships, what is it that you have found? Is there something that you’ve found that’s been almost like a common thing? It’s something you’ve got in common with each of those people or why do you think they’ve, why do one patient at the time?

Kate Perkins:             I’m just being myself and talking to them as if I’m talking to you, I’m actually, I’m very passionate about what I do. So it’s just giving them a call to let them know, hey, this is what I’m doing with your patients. They want to know, they, they would like to know that the patient is receiving gold standard of care. So it’s just right conversation. I know they’re busy and I realize that they’re happy to talk as well. So it’s just being myself.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. And you know what that is when it comes down to because I mean my business, wonderful web women started and built all on joint venture partners will on the all on relationships. I didn’t have any money to spend on advertising and stuff. So there was, that was what I just did for years and years and years. And so one thing that I recognize right from the beginning, and it was just per chance and it’s something I’ve recognized that has been core to the success that you’ve done, is if you are really, really passionate about what it is that you do, then people who are already well established that may seem to have a lot more credibility and power in influence, even though they will recognize, oh, you know, here’s a Newbie, here’s me established, they could be an imbalance here.

They recognize the passion, they recognize the passion and it’s not a passion for your personal success. It’s a passion for actually really helping the people that they’re passionate about in the same way. So I think that’s something that’s been really quite clear with the way that you’ve approached it. So when you’re saying just being yourself, absolutely you’re being yourself, but make sure for everybody that’s listening here, I want you to think about like what are you passionate about? What are you going to get off the fence and feel so strongly about that you’re not going to get splinters in your bump. Cause people who sit on the fence get splinters in their bump capers does not have splinters because you are passionate and specifically around the Rehab exercise part of this. So then you know, that’s what people are going to be recognizing. So that’s, that’s my challenge to everybody that’s listening. What is it that you are passionate about? Because if you’re going to be working through joint ventures, that is the thing that’s going to open the doors for you. That is the thing that’s going to make them listen to what you’ve got to do even if you’re just starting out. So I really take the time to work on that now. Okay, so now Kate, I think the other thing when it comes to joint ventures is a really important thing here. We mentioned at the beginning that you were continually investing in your own personal development specifically on this particular topic. And I also know that even while your business has been growing so fast, which means at the moment your work is doing like that, that’s time with you. So that your time at the moment that you selling, that’s changing as we’ll be sharing with people is, um, you still have been investing in your own professional development, not from a point of insecurity of ‘I’m not going to be taken seriously until I’ve got enough pieces of paper.’ The thing I’ve noticed about you is you keep on investing, but it’s because if I do this, I can help my client do that and I don’t have that knowledge yet. So did you want to share just a little bit about why you’ve done that, how you, how did you choose what you were going to invest your education in and what impact has that had in the, on the growth in your business?

Kate Perkins:             Um, I think it’s just been a natural progression, where I could see, okay, for example minimizing the risk of developing breast cancer related lymphedema. Exercise is a big component of that. Reducing seeing or minimizing the adverse effects of someone going through chemotherapy? Exercise Rehab is a big component of that. So before I completed the pink and steel cancer rehab qualifications, I qualified to be able to facilitate a program called strength after breast cancer. And that has been, a huge benefit to that many of my patients. So, um, I’ve got that qualification to be able to facilitate that program. And it’s with that program that when I started doing the videos, making the videos for the sizes in that particular program. And then progressing beyond that is getting the qualifications specifically around being a cancer rehab occupational therapists, which extends just beyond breast cancer Rehab. Right. And widen that vision to include cancer rehabilitation.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. So I think the important thing here is for people who are listening here, I’m not saying that you’ve got to go out and get as many qualifications as you can. The important thing is what are, what’s perhaps knowledge or skills or even relationships that you need to get in order for your clients to get the best outcome. Now, this may or may not even be an official qualification. It may be used simply doing an online course that’s going to give you the specialty to know something else that you couldn’t do with your clients. That’s really, you know, that’s an important thing for getting clients outcome. And we’ll talk about the strength after breast care next. I think what we’ll be doing there. But the other thing that I’ve noticed there, Kay, is you started getting the attention of the people who were referring people to you because you were able to now provide services that nobody else is doing because nobody else had had your combination of the expertise that you’ve put together.

Kate Perkins:             It’s just adding more tools for the toolbox. Yeah. Each thing that I was doing was um, well h you know, qualification was just being able to add that extra bit of service that’s going to help those patients. Yeah. You know, something even as simple as doing a lymph typing course. Another tool for the toolbox. Well, so if that’s a natural progression. So my business has definitely evolved naturally.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. And again, this is coming down to being very, very specific on who it is that you’re going to help and what your specialty is and aiming for real sort of excellence in a narrower area and to then be able to communicate what it is that you’re able to do to the people who’ve got influence. So let’s just move on a little tiny bit. I want to talk about the strength path to breast care and I’m just going to check out some room to make sure that we’re doing fine. Is now with a strength path to breast care. I want to talk about this in two points because one of the thing that people are going to be asking is because when you first started it was more like people were paying per session. And so that was one of the things that I’m really quite passionate about is if you’re going to get the best results with your clients over say, six sessions or having something else, well that’s better for the client and it’s better for you, for your business.

So you want to be able to package that together so that the clients, you’re not doing like every single session, you’re trying to get them to point for the next one, but also it’s what else can you get bundling in there that’s going to be your clients are going to get the best results. So if we talk about the strength after breast care, it’s coming to stages, hasn’t it? That first stage was putting together packages, you know, like an offer for people who are saying, well this is how much my strength after breast carek costs and this is what’s in it. These are for people who were, who was seeing you in your rooms. So did you want to just expand on that a little bit more about actually creating an offer and how does that make a difference to your business?

Kate Perkins:             So originally, and this is just when we started I started working with you, Janet. My, I am was to video every exercise within that program to provide a library. So those patients who, have signed on for the program could access those videos. So when they finished with me, that can go home in the comfort of their own home and watch those videos in their own time. And so then, I had the light bulb moment that came on, but what you suggested would be a fantastic idea is let’s be able to put this create this online which I would never have thought of doing.

Janet Beckers:          Right. And that’s where I go. Why didn’t you like that? You know, the classic like I get to actually talk like, like eight times.

Kate Perkins:             That’s it. That’s it. And so, yeah, that’s evolved. And then your guidance behind…. Okay, well let’s create the free videos to draw people to the program. But the difference with the online program and the program within the practice is it’s packaged a little bit differently because those who are signing up online would only get to see me like this by a zoom meeting, they’re not actually, I’m having that one on one face to face in the clinic. So there is a bit of a difference.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. But the thing that, so this was one of the things that I’m, and this is what we might talk a little bit now cause this is the stage we’re at now. So you’ve built the business way you booked out. We’ll talk about in the very last minute about the exciting step that’s happening now and your big vision. But the next that we’ve built up that step, you’ve created this suite of videos in order to help your existing clients because we’ve created these bundles for them to get into the program now that, so it’s pretty well booked out. Like you know, the amount of free time that you have now is minimal. So then the thing is this, because Kate is so passionate about, you know what if just the women who are having breast surgery do these exercises and even better if they do them before they have the surgery, their life is going to be so different. Like it’s going to make a difference. I think Kate’s only here on the Central Coast and she can only help so many people because you run out of time basically. So it just makes absolute sense that if you’ve got a way to help more women then let’s go international. There is no need for you to only be limited to the Coast because she’s got this great resource and you’ve created it in a way that’s going to be safe for them, that they can be working in hand with their doctors with it as well. Like you’ve really taken into account, you know, their whole medical team, not just here’s something to buy. And this is the exciting part. So this is the stage we’re at right now is, I’m just really just in the last week or so is now Kate created this fantastic opt in. So where do people go to be able to get like three really good exercises now that they can be using, that’s going to help them with their recovery?

Kate Perkins:             People can go to the home page solutions and it’s right there, smack bang in the middle. So click on the link and you can get three free videos to start off with. Just simple stretch a core exercise and, a weight component. And um, and then there’s the, the option there to, to purchase the whole suite. Yeah. And so the nice part here, so if you go to and just put like http in front. Now if you go to there, so you can see what we’ve created for, for Kate is so people can actually get some help straight away. So, and that’s for free. That’s your opt in. And the nice part about the online program is, so it’s got all the videos, but it’s also got Kate doing the worksheets and here’s how you can, how you can be doing the exercises and here’s how you can get my personal health, which you know, we’ve got lots of big visions for what’s going to happen on the next stage there.

Janet Beckers:          I’m sure we’ll do another podcast when we talk about that next stage. But, so when Kate and I were talking here beforehand about, you know, how do get now this message out to the world to as many women as possible because this can be helping anybody in any country. And that’s also unfortunately something that touches so many people. So we were thinking that one of the best things is, first of all, if this is, if you’ve got a friend who, um, or if it’s you, um, that is really going to benefit from this. If you’re in that situation now where your other is about to have breast surgery for cancer or you’ve just had it, this is going to help you. And the, and the program that Kate’s created is really caring and thorough. Um, But also as you may have gathered, um, you know, Kate, you work really, really well with joint ventures, with getting your message in front of the people who already have your target markets.

And so that’s one of the things that we were thinking that would be fantastic outcome from today. So some of those would be, um, so we were talking about you being a podcast guest is a great way. That would be fabulous. Yeah. So if you had kite somebody who was listening here and they have an audience of women or even medical people in your field. So either the, the people who need you or the people who work with them, if they already have an audience and if that’s what their podcast is for, what sorts of things would you talk about on that podcast?

Kate Perkins:             Education around how the program would be able to help their particular audience. Education around the benefits of exercise, exercise-rehab and cancer rehabilitation. Yeah. cause it’s just so simple. I’ve seen the benefits from my patients have even studying before their treatment and I come out stronger after their treatments finished. So, I would love to get that message out there and you know, open people’s eyes to say that there is something available for them and to share that passion. And with joint ventures is, I think for me, if I’m talking passionately and there’s a, there’s a two way conversation, with the other person as in sharing the same passion. Do I know then that is the right connection?

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s an important thing. So both having that same passion there is the really important thing because the other side that comes with the flip side with joint ventures is when people really, when you do talk to them, you can tell if they really do have the customers interest really top of mind rather than, Oh, I can see your, you know, that you’re going places. I want to get on your coattails. It’s a very, very different approach. So that’s, you know, I, I just say that because I get that a lot and you’ve already had that happening as well. So that’s, you know, people who are really passionate about this same topic make a really fantastic person to be able to build those relationships with, to help each other.

Kate Perkins:             So yeah, sorry, Janet going back home. The joint ventures. So most recently I’ve been in discussions with another GP who is equally as passionate about, um, providing education around lifestyle and rehabilitation for, the cancer patient population. And so it will be about creating a program together. That’s super exciting. So if anyone wants to talk about that sort of thing, absolutely. I’ll be more than happy to.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. that’s fantastic. And I think that’s the next stage that comes with joint ventures is it’s also well, what can we create from scratch? What can we cocreate something that’s not out there that for me to do it on my own is to, I don’t have the skills all the time to be able to do the whole thing, but if you’ve got somebody else that’s got those complimentary skills is to be exploring that possibility is really, really good. So I think we’ve come just about to the end, Kate. Let’s just talk very, very briefly about the next stage. What’s happening now in the growth of your business. Because this is a pretty exciting thing that’s kind of consuming your time at the moment, isn’t it?

Kate Perkins:             It is. So, the most exciting thing that’s happening at the moment is the fit out of my new clinic. So I am moving literally right next door to where I’ve been practicing and sharing. I’ve been working out of room for the last two years pretty much. So I’m now creating my own space. That’s going to have a dedicated exercise Rehab space. So I’ve got two treatment rooms. So if anyone’s out there who would like to let me know. Bu the most exciting thing is to be able to have that warm, welcoming space and a dedicated exercise area. That’s what’s happening now. My brand is about to explode with getting all of this organized, but it’s going to be awesome.

Janet Beckers:          And you know what the exciting part is? This is step one in this big vision to be able to create a purpose created, you know, collaboration of, of a place where people can come and they’re going to get everything they need for cancer rehab. I just think you’ve got this big vision and that’s been drawing you and it’s just so lovely to see every single step coming into place. So in just in a summary for people who have been listening, first of all, we’ve talked about the mindset of do you want to be one of those people that when you can see that there is a strategy, which is whatever’s been working for you, ask yourself what’s been the best results that you’ve got. Like it doesn’t have to be that it’s been, you know, forming relationships with you know, doing education of the people who can refer.

It might be that one of your things that you get the best results with is speaking to breakfast groups. It might be running webinars, it might be doing Facebook lives, whatever’s work best for you. Look at it. Where are your clients coming from? And double down build strategy around it and then be like, Kate, where you just bloody, we’ll do it. Go, I don’t, you know, and be one of those people that go, I don’t get why people don’t just do it. You want to be one of those rather than, Oh, I can’t believe that they did it. You know, they’re so brave. So, which that’s the mindset, which one are you going to be? It is going to be your passion and your vision that is really going to connect with the people of influence. It doesn’t that that is a real balancing between the diff to the, the powers of I’ve got influenced on a starter it is your passion and your, and you focusing on the client and that vision that is really going to make the difference.

And then just that, keep on going forward. You’re playing a long game, which may seem really long when you’re waiting seven months for your first referral from some education that you’ve been doing. But then you look down, you know, like not even two years later and it’s grown so fast. You’re about to go international and you’ve had to now, instead of renting a room, you’ve actually got your own place and you’re going to rent rooms out, you know? So two years doesn’t seem long or seven months may have seemed an eternity. So if you had the long game, you know, mentality, it ends up being a short game.

Kate Perkins:             Can I say something that, it’s just popped into my head. I remember when I very first started and sharing rooms, there was a psychologist who was sharing a room next to me and he said, you know, it takes about two years for your business to really kick off. And I was thinking to myself back then, Wow, I’ve got a long way to go now I can understand what he was saying, you know, I think now it’s almost at that two year point. Um, it’s really kicking on, so probably right. Yeah, it’s exciting. Watch this space, this space folks. This is Kate’s just going to make a huge impact. I just know because he’s not going to stop because she can’t understand why you wouldn’t stop.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. So thank you. So not a lot. Yeah. Well actually we were just talking about that the other day. When was Kate’s so fun? And you know, you were just saying it’s got a life of its own and it is very much like, you know, you’re on this huge way, almost like a tsunami and you know, once it’s build its own momentum, all you got to do is to stand on that board. As long as you stay on that board, it’s just going to keep on taking you where you want to go. Just ride the wave. Yes. So and the way you get to ride that wave, is he doing just exactly what we’ve been talking about today. So thank you so much for your time Kate. Let’s just repeat where people can go to connect with you.

So that’s is the best place it is.

Kate Perkins:             Yeah. So if you put in https:\\, that’s where all my contact details are and, opt in for the three free videos and anyone has any questions they can contact me on mobile.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah, sure. We’ll just leave that there on the website so that people can contact that. The reason I’ve just gone there was because I know that Kate is going to get so busy that the mobile would be a luxury. So yeah, I’m always protecting Kate cause I know I can see this. You’re going to get flat out. So if you go to, you’ll get all Kate’s contact in mobile if it’s still there. But at least now it’s going to, you’ll be going into your own place with, you know you’ve got the lovely Kate that’s going to be there, you know, answering those calls and helping people make a time.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. And um, and also you can come and you know, oh, everyone’s in social media. You’ll find Kate over there on, on Instagram and also Facebook,

Kate Perkins:             Facebook and Instagram.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. That’s brilliant. Thank you so much for your time. It’s been such a pleasure to be part of this whole process. It’s been really, really exciting. And um, yeah, I’m really looking forward to just seeing these next steps. And I would of also one of the best things for everybody that’s listening here, the best thing that can be great feedback for Kate and Frai is, you know, just if you’re, wherever you watching this, whether you’re on the website, whether you’re over on social media, anywhere on Youtube, getting this in your email, wherever it is that you are listening to this or on iTunes or whatever, just leave a comment. Let us know. What were your bigger AHA’s like? What have you taken from today that you’re going to be able to use in your own business this week? That is fantastic feedback. So come and find us and just let us know. It would really, really help. Okay. Bye everybody.

Kate Perkins:             Thank you Janet! It’s been a privilege. Thank you!

How To Use Intuition In Business. A Scientific Approach

How To Use Intuition In Business. A Scientific Approach

Today we combine the woo-woo of using intuition with the logic of science, to make better decisions in your business with our brilliant guest Mare Forfa.

True confession: my default setting is day-dream 🙂

Maybe you can relate?

Even though I have a very strategic and logical mind with an almost insatiable curiosity to understand how things work…by brain very quickly flicks over into day-dreaming, imagining and, as many friends have noted in the past, vagueness!

Yet here’s what I know to be true.

Most of my greatest moments of clarity come during those day-dreaming moments.

The challenge of course, is having a system to “turn on” the day dream mode and access that intuitive state when you need it.

That’s what we cover today.

In this episode we discuss:

  • The science behind intuition
  • What are the conscious, subconscious and unconscious minds
  • How do these relate to insights, intuition & instinct
  • The role that senses play with the minds & the insights/intuition/instinct
  • How the body relays the information to us in an “ah-ha moment”,  “hell yeah!” or “no way”
  • How to use all of the above information to make decisions in your life and business that align with the core of who you are.
  • How to decipher if you’re making decisions from fear or if it’s truly your intuition speaking

Plus a special podcast bonus for you today. A bonus worksheet for you to download with the step-by-step process to tap into your intuition predictably to make better decisions.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

Click the image below to download the BONUS worksheet!

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d love for you to take a quick minute to share your thoughts with us and leave an honest review and rating for the show over on iTunes!

Read The Transcript Here

Janet Beckers:          Hello and welcome. Janet Beckers here from Romance Your Tribe radio and I’m really excited to introduce you to a beautiful friend of mine, Mare Forfa, how are you gorgeous?

Mare Forfa:                Hi, how are you going? I’m so excited to be here today.

Janet Beckers:          I am too. Now I’ll just tell you why I’ve actually invited Mare today before we get stuck into everything. Now Mare and I, we met it was quite a few years ago, wasn’t it? At a three day event on from Kate [inaudible], another mutual friend on, probably on PR wasn’t it? On publicity? Yeah. And, you know, when you just meet people and there’s something about their energy that you just go, “I know we’re going to be friends, you know, that- Mare had that beautiful energy about us. So, at that time though you were with your business, that you’re in with your husband, which is a Doctor’s Collective, a few around doctors, isn’t it?

Mare Forfa:                Yeah, we have a couple of businesses. That one was actually PassGAMSAT, but we also run the Doctor’s Collective. So, yes, we- and we’re still running both but that where our focus was back then.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah, very much so. And that’s the thing with that one there is that you are a huge part of that business, but it wasn’t necessarily your passion, your baby. And so since then we’ve kind of, you know, kept eyes on each other but we haven’t really connected a lot. And so it was so lovely just last week to get this call from you saying let’s just catch up about what you’re doing. And I was so excited to see your passion, you know, you now focusing on, you know, we’ve got that business going super duper well. Now, this is going to be my passion, my strengths. And I just love seeing that, you know, when you’ve got somebody that you can- now I go, “now, I get it. Now, I get why out energy really connected.” So, that’s why I have invited Maria along today. So, Marie, what we’re going to be talking about today is around intuition. So if you can kind of give us a really sort of simple outcome of what we will be talking about today. And then I just want to, before we get stuck into it, I just want to backtrack a little bit so people get to know why you’re talking about this. So first of all, what’s going to be the big things that we’re going to be doing today?

Mare Forfa:                The big thing is we’re really going to focus on what is intuition and how does it work, not from a, “oh, I just kind of feel like I have a gut feeling.” But what is the process behind it? Because once you understand it, you can understand where your decisions are coming from. And is it fear, is it a gut feeling, and what is it that your body’s telling you and how do you take the next steps?

Janet Beckers:          Yeah, I really, I love this topic because this is a thing that I find quite often with clients who, especially clients who are really in tune with their spirituality, who really trust their intuition is sometimes they will say, you know, I’m getting a message that I shouldn’t do this. And it’s really nice for us to be able to dive into this in a logical way as well as we would weigh.

Mare Forfa:                Okay.

Janet Beckers:          Because sometimes it’s fear and you can be getting them mixed up. You’ve really can be getting them mixed up. So I’m really excited to be approaching this logically and scientifically as well as like just totally embracing the whole, we would, that’s kind of summing up my whole, that’s my happy place, the cross between science. And so before we dive into that, so everybody that’s here really just get ready to take some notes because I’m expecting today that there’s going to be some, some really big “Aha’s” and possibly a little bit of challenging for you. So be open to that, okay? Now before we do, just let me- just tell, you know, introduce yourself, Mare, but in terms of like, why this, why now and really, who the hell are you to be teaching this anyway?

Mare Forfa:                Who the hell does anyone think of teaching it, right? I have a little bit of an interesting story because, you’re very right in your introduction saying that, you know, I’ve been working for many years as an entrepreneur. My husband and I work together very closely and we’ve built multiple successful businesses. Probably the most noteworthy is PassGAMSAT, hoping premed students become doctors and then the Doctor’s Collective helping doctors really become business people. And when our first kind of business really took off, PassGAMSAT, I got to a point where everything was going so well and had a bit of like a, what could be then there’s like $1 million meltdown, you know, like when your business goes so well, so quickly and almost unexpectedly, although, you know, obviously it takes a lot of work because now everything’s going to go, now I’ve reached my dream, now I don’t have a dream now what the tyranny of the achieved gold, right?

And so my husband would be like traveling six months of […], Had this incredible business. We were literally changing lives. Well, we’re making doctors or- we don’t make them, but we help them become the doctors that were destined to be. And we were just ticking all these boxes and there was still something missing. There’s still this feeling of there’s something missing in my life. And that’s when I really connected to the spiritual work and the spiritual side because it was like I’ve always known that I was a medium. I’ve always known energetically, but it just wasn’t really accepted and not something, you know, that was necessarily embraced in my community or the people that I was in. And I was very- so, like, focused on the goals and hitting the business stuff. And yeah, it was about 2014 when I really started learning, when I started learning about intuition, about energy, about the universe, about all of these “woowoo’s” things. So it was very much like what you were saying, the mixed between having like a very practical pragmatic business orientated mind and then going, oh, there’s all these other things that have been using and they actually go together really well. And I need- I needed the backup of almost science and research to be able to allow me to get into that, and it’s kind of where I am now and that’s what I- I help people to understand.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. The thing, there’s a couple of things that really, really stood out to me in what you were saying there. First of all, that whole thing of a lot of times people will see that you’re either incredibly goal driven, focused action, or you’re the other end of the spectrum where you’re kind of, your feet aren’t on the ground. You can be, you know, hitting the clouds type thing. Totally “woowoo” very dreamy and action is all most like not something that you associate with people in that way. So the thing that I love that you’ve said here is- and we’ll dive in a little bit deeper when you say that, you know, I’ve always been a medium so we will dive into that a little bit because I know a lot of people are going to think what is that. But before we do is I love what you’ve just done there, that you’ve actually been able to debunk that stereotype to start with. That you’ve can- that you can only be one or the other.

You’re actually showing, well actually you can be both. It’s just that the other thing that I really picked up there was, and people who are, who are listening here or, or watching us, if you’re here watching the video is you might be finding yourself having that same pool of, you know, here is the practical entrepreneurial, be successful, be goal-driven, be action numbers, all of that sort of stuff. But you may be feeling this pull towards the more spiritual side that you may be rejecting. And the big thing that you were talking about is- yeah, and I know for me that was for a long time as well is- but that really can be very, very difficult if you are surrounded by a community that does not even acknowledge that the spiritual side maybe valid.

And this may be me stereotyping, but I have got a background working in health is the doctors and- you know the doctors community is very, very much around, you know, you have to be able to prove it. Where is the evidence? Show me the studies. Where is the science? And if you can’t prove it, show me the science. Well, I’m sorry, we’re not really going to support you on that. So a lot of people may be, you may be finding yourself in an environment that makes it so you really, really have to have a lot of bravery to stand up and say, you know what, I’m kind of in both camps here. So if people are listening and you can relate to that, I would love it if you would give us some feedback. So I the leave some comments where ever you are here for that and also come and hunt down Mare later on.

You know, we’ll show you how to do that so that you can go get your sister. So I’d like to acknowledge that courage actually that in the face, you know, the norm of your successful group and the people who you work with that you are willing to put your hand up and say, “Hey, I’m doing things a bit differently.” Yeah, it does, it takes guts. It really does take guts. Now let’s- if we can just dive in just a little bit. When you said that you’ve always been a medium, but you had to then go and do the research so that you could communicate that and also validate it for yourself as well. Can you just describe what do you mean by medium and then we’ll look, then we’ll be going to start diving into the science so you can share what you found for people.

Mare Forfa:                Cool. Well, a medium to me in the most literal term is a communicator. And for me being a medium means that I’m able to communicate things. Now, be that in an interview with you, be that in front of, I’ve spoken in front of 2000 people before. I’ve spoken to a small intimate group of five. And I also am able to communicate with energy. And so basically from a physical perspective, we’re all made of energy. You’re made of energy. The table’s made of energy. Like clowns are made of energy. What is energy like? Literally everything is energy. And when I say I’ve always been a medium, I say that in so many […], I’ve always been a communicator. I was- you know, at uni and I was loving like there was an assessment that was about talking and giving a presentation. I was like, yes. And everyone else was like, oh, we hate that.

Or I love writing blog articles and writing whatever it is writing. I love singing. I love not saying I’m a good singer, I just love doing it. Yeah. And I also love having the ability to feel, and that’s what communicating really, you’re able to show your point of view, show your feelings. Give across a message to somebody and I feel like I’ve always had the ability to feel energy, and you know that and be able to maybe interpret it in a way that some people can’t. Particularly, I know that lots of people work on the chakra systems or energy systems. That for me has been just something I just have always been able to do and I didn’t realize it was something that some people needed to learn a little bit more or learn how to really focus in and do it. Does that make sense? Am I explaining [inaudible]

Janet Beckers:          That is a really, really different description than I have ever heard of what does it mean to be a medium. Because I was expecting you to be able to say, well, I, you know, I can tap in and I can hear the voices or I have a feeling or I have an emotion that goes and I’m getting messages from people who’ve passed to people who were here. That’s always been my interpretation of what a medium is. But Yours is [inaudible]

Mare Forfa:                I can do that too. To me, the difference between what you’re saying and what I’m saying is that to most people, a medium is only somebody that can speak to the dead. And to me, someone that’s passed over is it’s just a different energetic form. So it’s just someone who’s energetically in a different space and we can’t see them. However, what I believe in the way that I, and I feel like I really need to take ownership of that word because being a medium is so much more than that. Being a medium is not just being able … get Uncle Fred over there. But if your truth, being able to communicate a message to somebody, because it doesn’t matter if I can say another energetic form or whatever it is, if you cannot relay that to the other person in a way that they can hear the message, then what’s the point?

Janet Beckers:          Yeah.

Mare Forfa:                The pragmatic side of me, you’ve got to be able to communicate that. And I think that everybody can do this. This, I don’t think the special power that I have that you know, is magically bestowed upon me. I feel like this is something, and this is part of the work that I’m doing, that everybody can tap into being a better communicator, can be able to understand, for example, intuition, how that works and how they can make better decisions from that place. That to me is what a medium is, not just a psychic medium, but […] Person.

Janet Beckers:          Oh, that is a really interesting way of looking at it. And, and for people who are listening here, did some of those things that Mare described then, were you thinking “yeah, yeah. That was me. That was me. That’s me.” When you were describing even down to the singing. I’m thinking, yeah, I’ve got, I’ve had singing lessons. I’m pretty crap, but I don’t care. I just enjoy, I just enjoy singing, you know? But from that whole thing of the communicating to being able to sometimes feel the energy of the other people, but then be able to put that communicating is a really different way of putting that there. And I like how you just say in a very [inaudible] way. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I get the communication from people who passed over. That’s, yeah, that’s, I just do that. Like how you just kind of […] As if, you know, it’s just another sense of energy and other communicating that it’s just all on the same space. Yeah.

Mare Forfa:                It really is though. It is no more special than what someone in the physical plane needs to say to you. Right. In terms of, I know that a lot of people miss loved ones and, and I do have a look empathy for that, but I think that everybody has this ability. And you know, it’s how far down the rabbit hole do you really want to go?

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. It’s really interesting. Look, I could talk about this particular part of it for ages, but we wide because this will become all anecdotal where I’ll start- I know when we talked for way longer than we intended to when we were first connecting, because, you know, I was some sharing some stories of some kind of freaky experiences that I had had that totally made me go, whoa. Like, how did that happen? That, I just love that you’ve just owned it and embraced it. It’s very, you know, it’s incredibly, normalizing which are really like, really like. So before we just now tip over into we’re going to share some of the signs, so that people can understand how does this work? I’m just really curious about- cause this is, this is a new business for you, isn’t it? It’s a new venture. So who is it that you are with your new, you know, you’ve talked about communication. So who is it that you’re really loving to work with when it comes to communicating, helping them to communicate.

Mare Forfa:                I love working with women who are entrepreneurs mostly because I can connect with them very well. And I have, we have, we share experiences and I love working with women who have felt like, they have felt like there’s something missing and they know that there’s something missing but they don’t know how to find it. And they don’t know how to really tap into what it is that’s missing and, and really where to start with it. I often find that that means that maybe they’ve read a book, like maybe you’ve read Renee Brown’s dare to lead for example, and you’ve gone, I’ve read this book, get it, I understand it. How the hell do I implement this in my life? Or it’s a spiritual, maybe you’ve read Louise Hay or you’ve read something and it’s just, you’ve just gone, okay, there’s, there’s more to this. What do I do? And that’s who I love working with because they’re very open to the pragmatic side. And they’re also very open to the kind of, let’s call it the energetic side, the spiritual side.

Janet Beckers:          Cool. That’s excellent. All right, so now let’s dive into our teaching part here. So everybody get your pens out. So where we going to be looking at intuition and how to be able to know if…

How do you use your intuition and how to be able to tell if it actually is intuition or if we’re looking at fear here. So I’m gonna kind of hand over the structure of how we were going to be talking about this over to you, Marie, and I’ll just interject.

Mare Forfa:                Perfect. Perfect. Well, with intuition, I feel like we sometimes need to take a couple of steps back and start from the beginning. And it’s not a thousand steps back, but just a couple of steps back. And I want to start with a very normal thing for entrepreneurs. I’m sure you’ve seen like lots of images of a iceberg underwater. And at the top of the water is just that little bit of iceberg and all the actual main chunky bits are underneath, right? And I want you to hold that image in your mind when I’m going through all of these, because that image is a basic metaphor for the way that our brain and intuition really works. The top of kind of the iceberg, we will call our conscious mind. And that’s about 10 essential. So, and, you know, these figures are rough because we want to make, we make it easy, 10% basically.

But about 10% of our mind is really our conscious mind and that’s where all that thinking happens in everybody’s very well aware. We’re using our conscious mind right now to talk to each other. Just underneath the surface is the main chunk of the aspect and that is the subconscious mind and that takes about 60% of the spice in the mind, if you can say it that way. You know, 60% about […] And what we’re thinking and our beliefs and all of that stuff comes from the subconscious mind. Now, right at the bottom, so if we have the iceberg and then the big chunk of it, and then at the bottom, the last 30% is actually unconscious mind. And this is like the processing. Now most people just talk about the conscious and the subconscious, but the unconscious is really important as well because this is where we’re actually, we live from our unconscious place.

Like when I think about a heart beating, a hear just beats. Now, if we just [inaudible] this metaphor out and maybe we can start at the bottom. Now we’re talking about the unconscious mind. Its job is to keep you alive. Heart beating, blood pumping through me, the unconscious mind. It’s all about keeping us alive. And the easiest way to really think about that, is instinct, it’s the instinctual things that we do and it’s the reactions. So for example, if someone throws something at my face, I mean instinctually just giving ‘aah’, in front of the face and protect my face. That is not something that I think about, there’s not even really unconscious that is, sorry subconscious. It’s really unconscious. It just “I don’t mean to” but my head goes there. This subconscious, so just one layer of that middle of the iceberg.

That’s where he intuition lives that is the bit that is communicating to us and the conscious bit, and we’re going to come back to that intuition bit, but the conscious bit is really where the insight happens. So this is where we start to form ideas and we can start to communicate them and the insight, the 10% bit is really important because this is what is what we’re focusing on right now. Now the subconscious and the intuition, it’s really important to know that this is where the bulk of our beliefs and our behaviors come from. And we use our conscious mind to kind of dove in and, kind of goes both way. Conscious and subconscious. They communicate with each other at a certain point in time depending on what the circumstances, mostly through our senses. So you’ve got eyes, nose, mouth, ears, touch, right? Five senses. And what’s happening right now?

You might be driving, say listening to this podcast and you’re driving, I often drive with podcasts on and you’re feeling the steering wheel. You might’ve taken a sip of coke or a sip of water. You’re focusing your eyes on the road, you’re paying attention to that. You’re listening to me and Janet, all of these things are happening, but really stickly you can’t take in all of that information at once and be able to process it in the conscious mind. So all of the information is coming because you’re driving like the ad on the side of the road. You may not be actually consciously looking at it, but it’s going straight into your subconscious mind. And your subconscious mind then uses the processing to send up to the conscious mind what’s important. So if the person in front of you slams on the break, then your subconscious mind is like, “Go, conscious mind”, and you’re like [inaudible], you’d slam on the brake, right? So the processing doesn’t always happen in the conscious mind, happens in the subconscious and it sends up the important bits.

All the data that you conscious mind needs to really focus on. That’s why when you slam on the brakes, you’re not paying attention to the ad on the side of the road, the big billboard. Have no idea with, because it’s down in the subconscious and it’s not actually being brought up as the important thing to focus on. Now what happens is when there is, the intuition or the subconscious kind of talking to you, often it comes up in ways that the subconscious doesn’t talk in words. It doesn’t go, “Mare, you need to do blah, blah” usually comes up in a way of a feeling or a different way of being able communicate with you. So you tell me, Janet, when you feel like, your intuition is speaking to you, how is some of the things that you really feel like it’s communicating with you?

Janet Beckers:          We’ve may- I always think about that term of trust your gut when you know it’s, I mean that’s been a term that’s been around for ages, but for me it is very, very much an actual real thing. So I will be quite often I will feel in my gut or in my solar plexus, something that is either like a tightness. So they can be that, especially if something’s wrong. If I’m feeling like there’s something that’s not quite right in a situation that doesn’t work, otherwise it will also tend to be, I will have- I’m a person that can flip between daydream mode and on point let’s go mode like really, really quickly. But I do think my default is daydream and so I will find quite often I’ll go into a daydream mode really quite quickly in a time when I shouldn’t be. So for me that’s kind of like, well, why have you gone into daydream? What’s happening in me? Just listen. So for me it’s in two places.

Mare Forfa:                So what I’m hearing you say is that that’s really a feeling that you get. It’s a feeling in your gut, physical feeling, all the people describe it as butterflies, particularly when it’s fear. I can give you an example of when I met my husband, we had literally just met like a day or two […], I remember going up in a lift with him and I turned around and I felt it was like a lightning had struck. I was like, “what the”, and I didn’t actually understand energetically what that was. How that was like kind of intuition speaking to me and he actually at a different time had exactly the same feeling. Ah. Which I think is very interesting.

Janet Beckers:          That’s a whole [inaudible] isn’t it? You know, it was my […]

Mare Forfa:                Yeah. I didn’t understand at that time that that was really energetically was the intuition talking to me. And that was all the subconscious than like all of it was happening. But what is really important is that you need to understand that when the intuition is talking to you, the language that it speaks to you. So I often find that if people are writing notes, I’m actually writing down instances when you felt like you’ve had this information coming to you, what was the actual feeling for you specifically? Because that’s going to be different for everybody, but the feeling is really important. Now to go to the next step, we’ve got three layers. We have the conscious, the subconscious, the unconscious. The insight, the intuition, the instinct. The next way that this really applies is really from the brain being the conscious. So, the processing that happens in your brain is really inside and that is where those aha moments come from.

Mare Forfa:                You go, “ah, I get it.” I know you’ve told me seven times that these and these can vary together, but now my brain is actually paste it together. The intuition area and when it’s a feeling of the yes and a positive for most people, that comes from the heart space. And that subconscious communication generally comes from that heart space. Now the interesting thing for most people is that the unconscious, the instinct generally comes from that gut place and you go, oh, they’ve got that either from the solar plexus or the gut when it’s like when it’s something bad, it’s from that and that’s generally where the no’s come from and the fear comes from. So when people say to me, I just got this gut feeling, I’m going almost immediately know that they are coming from that place of fear.

They’re coming from that instinct place and your instinct is there to keep you alive. It’s not there to help you grow. I’m going to repeat that. Your instinct is there to keep you alive, it is not there to help you grow. That is so important when looking at intuition to go, is this my instinct talking? Is this my gut talking? Is this the voice of fear is, it this the voice of no or is this my intuition? Is this by heart space? Is this the space of yes? Is this the voice of love? What is this? Is this the voice of growth? And where is it, not just physically, but what sort of communication is that with you? Is that all making sense?

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. Now, I just want to clarify something here because this is sort of diving into, something that I see quite often with people who I’m working with and we all- and also in myself of course is, you know, wait, what’d you talked about there is if it’s coming from guts it’s in the unconscious, it’s in fear when people quite often we’ll go, you know, I’m getting the message. And these were quite often will be people who, you know, are feeling that they have, you know, that they have, like a medium type strength. That medium, not […] average, medium as in your definition. I know we have probably got, well I’m getting the message from my guides or my angels or whatever they call it, that this is a no. But if they’re actually, if I was to say to them, I want you to ask yourself, are you getting that message from the gut or are you getting that message from the heart? If they’re saying it’s coming from the gut isn’t very likely that it may not actually be any tuition. It may actually be a fear that they have got so…

Mare Forfa:                I, what I would actually suggest is you actually change how you ask the question. So instead of saying, is it from the gut or is it from the heart and giving them almost like two options. What I would be looking at […] to the client or to the person that he’s speaking to. Even if it’s not a client, let’s actually not go to the gut, but let’s actually live in the space of the heart and let’s focus and open up that heart energy and that heart space. And a really simple way to do that is to go, okay, let’s imagine right in the center of your chest, a beautiful green ball of light and really opening that light up. Not so that you’re stretching it out, but so that it grows in energy and increasing that energy so much that it fills your whole body, it fills the whole room. Maybe it feels the whole suburb, depending on how much you really want to open that up and then start to make the decision from that place. And from that place, the decision can still be ‘no’. That you know that that is not their fear, but they’re actually opening up from their heart center.

Janet Beckers:          Oh look, this makes so much sense to me and I’ll tell you why I’m, this is kind of like a really lovely missing piece in something that I challenge myself to do every single day and it’s actually so core to what I do with my clients that I get them to fill out a contract at the beginning of us working together, not with me but with themselves. And I call it the “scarecited” contract. And because what I find is that time of growth when you talked about this survival and then there’s growth, is and that the fear is not that survival but you know tapping into that intuition if it is a yes place is growth is I what I call “scarecited”, which is kind of all just a word I made up, but then when I googled it, other people obviously you’ve come up with the same I think is a lot of times that you will be coming, there will be something happening in your business when you’re going like this really scares the crap out of me mainly because I’m going to have to push myself seriously out of my comfort zone to do this.

Like I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve had to do that. But the conscious decision I made was actually sitting in the back row of a multi speaker event where everybody been getting up on stage, sharing their stories of, I used to live in a rolled up newspaper in the middle of the road and now everything’s good. And I realized that the big thing that was different was they had all stepped into fear and that was the thing. So I made a decision then that if I felt that fear that I was going to step into it and challenge myself and that really the, I was going to step into that feeling of scare cited, like find the excitement in it. And I’ve actually found- for me scarecited is I feel the fear but I’m going to trust myself here and I’m going to back myself and I’m going to step into the excited and I’ll say, you’ll know when your scarecited because you’re going to feel that mixture of the fear but anticipation and enjoy that goes with it.

So I actually get people at the very beginning saying, I want you to step, sign a contract with yourself here. And it actually tells me if they’ve signed it. I can see it in the back end of our software to say I promise to myself when I feel, when I feel the fear I’m going to step into scarecited. So what you’ve described here is an actual method to step, to discover it. Is this, you know, is this a fear that I’m just holding myself back in or is this challenging me and how to get into that scarecited zone. I just love it that, that strategy that you just gave, that exercise of stepping into the heart and then making the decision from there is so powerful. Like it’s, it sounds simple, powerful. And for some people they may go “woowoo” but I’ve seen this work not just with myself but with my clients. I’ve just never had somebody described it in such a logical way, so thank you. Thank you for that. And my challenge to everybody listening here is, you know, embrace the scarecited. That is a great exercise to do. So as you said, you can say no from that point, but you know, you’re doing it.

Mare Forfa:                And it’s a choice, and this is where I think, you know, making decisions from this place of understanding. You know, what is my conscious mind just overtaking? What is my subconscious mind saying and what is my unconscious mind trying to overtake as well. That’s where you can start to make the decisions from a place of strength because I run multiple businesses, it’s bloody scary. It is. Like I have so many times been like, what the hell are we going to do in this situation? Like how is, like I cannot see a way right now and being able to go, do you know what? I can live in this place of fear or I can move forward in this place of what you’re describing scarecited and doing that from that place is, just make life easier and it makes it below in a way where you can see the joy, the abundance, the gratitude. Because if you live in this fear place, it’s not a fun place to be. Life […] keep moving. It’s just not fun. It’s just not exciting.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah, and you know what, that is such a really great point for you to make that you can still, life doesn’t stop because you have given into the fear. Like, it doesn’t stop because you’re going, I’m scared. I’m not going to take that action because some actions are going to happen anyway. So I love that distinction of this is how you get into flow. Cause that’s a point that a lot of people are saying, you know, you know when you’re in flow, but how do you actually create it? So would that, would you to get into that state of flow, would that exercise that you gave, [inaudible]

Mare Forfa:                I mean that’s one very simple, quick, easy way. You can do it in five seconds and it’s probably the easiest way to start. There are heaps of other ways that you can do that energetically. I’m also from a physical and a mental, like I really work with my clients by going, here’s the physical, here’s the mental, here’s the spiritual and it’s like a table and it’s got three legs. And if any one of them is shorter than the others, you’re always going to feel a little bit wobbly. So I think you can dive into all the “woowoo” stuff and just focus on the spiritual and that’s really ungrounded spirituality. But what I think is also very important is that we get the mental mindset stuff working and the physical tools, like if you’re building a business, for example with you, you’re building businesses with people helping them build their own, I should say. Then they need to have the things to do. They need to understand marketing and sales and you know, so many other things. Without that physical stuff, none of the spiritual stuff is going to bring you to have abundance in your business if you don’t know that. So all three are just as important as the other. And it’s only, I think once you really excel in one area that sometimes you can see that the table is really unbalanced.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah, I loved it. And it’s just, this is actually one of the lovely things that has come from our discussion is I do quite a bit of mindset stuff as well as the really practical stuff with my members. But a lot of that sort of that extra level that you’ve been talking about, that understanding of I’m working within that, that spiritual side, that third leg that you’ve talked about has been, we’ve got little bits of it but nothing that is a concrete thing for people to follow. So that’s actually one of the things that Mare is going to be doing is for our members is actually creating an expanded training on this so that the members that are in our program can actually have that to go to, to help them to make those decisions. Because as you said, you know, business is scary. Like it’s, if you want to have any kind of personal development, accelerated program […], you are diving straight into every fear that you can ever have is going to come up through your time in business and it’s not as if it’s only going to be for the first year or so and then you’re sitting pretty, it’s, it’s going to happen. Which is why I love it.

Mare Forfa:                I’m telling you it’s still, it’s still terrifying. Still scarecited. That’s what it is.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. Living on the edge, baby. So I’ve loved this, you know how you’ve really made it clear with your- I love that you’ve given that distinction of if it’s coming from the gut that that is, you know, that’s usually the unconscious and it’s the fear. So making those decisions from the heart, it’s, it’s just a really beautiful distinction. So thank you so much for sharing that. For me, that was an aha. I would love to hear from everybody that’s listening here. Is that an aha for you? Does that make sense? And what are you doing with it? That’s the most important thing. So let’s just move on now to something that people can do this week. So what would be a challenge that people can do this week to start to explore and feel more confident stepping in, to trusting their intuition and knowing it’s intuition, not fear.

Mare Forfa:                Yeah. I think the first step is always going to me identifying how your intuition is currently communicating with you. Is that, that gut feel, is it like with me and my husband […] that lightening bolt, is for me I get- my intuition speaks true feelings. I don’t see images, I don’t hear things and I can’t physically speak to the dead, but I can get feelings once I started to work on what those feelings were and what they meant and just starting to decipher the language that my kind of subconscious than my intuition or my heart that’s speaking with, then that allowed me to communicate better.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah, that’s, that’s a really good point to start. Cause the thing that I can see here that requires mastery, and that’s why I guess people would work with somebody like you is there, you’ve got the interpretation that you’ve got at that very top level. You know, you’re getting all these messages that are coming from your subconscious. You’ve got to learn to communicate it so you can do something with that even if it was communicating it to yourself. So that’s, that then becomes the mastery of being able to

Mare Forfa:                Yeah.

Janet Beckers:          do that. Well, I’m imagining, so that’s a really first really good step is be start learning the language of what your subconscious is saying to you. How does it, how does it communicate to you is, that’s really powerful. So thank you so much, Mare. Is there anything that I’ve forgotten to ask that we should be finishing with before we help people how they can find out more.

Mare Forfa:                Well look, we could talk for hours, you and I. We really, we have no problems talking, but I think that really the focus on knowing kind of the three pillars or the three legs of the table and having that ability to go, okay, where am I really physically within my business with my life really strong in the physical bit. Where am I strong in the mental bit? Where am I strong with the spiritual side? And if there is anything missing there, kind of understanding where the tables a little bit wobbly I think is also the next step to going. That’s my growth area. What took you to where you are, right now is not going to take you to the next level. So if you’re looking at what’s my next level, where’s my growth area? Can I have a fantastic business? But, and I know my mindset, right. Or I’m really spiritual that I have great mindset but my business sucks. Or you know, it could be in any area identifying that is, it’s really key to growth.

Janet Beckers:          Yeah. I love it. That is a great way to finish. And so if, if people would like to find out more, connect with you, Mare, how can they do that?

Mare Forfa:                Awesome. You can jump to my website which is Mare is spelt Mare, which is my traditional Macedonian name. Or they can find me on the socials, on Instagram, Facebook. Drop me a line, I’d love to hear feedback from people and fantastic stories of them using intuition, I love hearing that.

Janet Beckers:          Yes. And you know what that is, you know, that is one of the best things that if you’re listening to this interview today, I mean, I do these podcasts because I just love communicating. I love the stories. I love just learning from people like Mare is, you know, but one of the best things is to be able to come and give some feedback, you know, and so, you know, just go and share stories, go and share stories with Marie, is such a wonderful way to give her feedback for the time that she spent today. So go and do that. Just go into their stories and come and share them with me too. I really, really love those. If you are watching this over on the blog post, if you look, if you come over to to the podcast area, you’ll see all the blog posts there.

If you’re listening to this on iTunes or something, you will see that there is a link there to go to that page anyway. Now on there, apart from seeing the video and seeing us hearing person is Mare’s going to send me through an infographic that we’re going to put on that page. So it kind of summarizes all this in one go for you. So that’s a super cool gift. Thank you for that cause go and get that. And, you know, save it, print it off, whatever. It’s going to help you to keep that in mind for you. So thank you so much for that, Mare. Thank you everybody for taking the time to be here. I can’t wait to hear your stories and yeah, and embrace the scarecited and just do it. So thank you so much for your time, Mare. Bye everybody!

3 Counter-Intuitive Ways To Get Better Results For Your Client… and Greater Success In Your Business

3 Counter-Intuitive Ways To Get Better Results For Your Client… and Greater Success In Your Business

Today I’m challenging you to think quite differently about the way you are doing business. In fact, doing the OPPOSITE of what most people do in their business can be the thing that makes you stand out in the crowd, attract ideal clients and importantly get better results for them than you may have been getting so far.

The 3 things I detail below are counter-intuitive and (I hope) will challenge you!

They are not “doing the opposite just to be a rebel” ideas….. that’s just dumb in business. These are tried and tested counter-intuitive ways of doing things that have made a huge difference to my own business and that of my colleagues and clients.

Here’s a sneak peek:

  • The 3 measures of a successful business (one is rarely used but most important)
  • 3 counter-intuitive ideas that get better results for your clients
  • How to get splinters out of your butt
  • How delivering less to your clients for the same price is a better service
  • Why most service providers and topic experts are ripping their clients off (and you may very well be one of them) and the counter-intuitive approach that demonstrates integrity.
  • Action steps to take THIS WEEK.

You can watch the video, listen to the audio, download from the podcast directory, or read the transcript below. Never miss an episode. Click here for all the ways you can subscribe.

3 Counter-Intuitive Ways To Get Better Results For Your Clients… and Greater Success In Your Business

The 3 Measures of Success in Business

How can you tell if a business is successful. I consider 3 measures are most important:

1. Profit

Kinda obvious really. Your business needs to be making money. Otherwise you have a hobby, not a business. If you are not creating an income from your business you’re going to need another source of income like a job or hopefully somebody else will be looking after you.

2. Lifestyle

Your business must also be supporting your lifestyle because you do not want to be working non-stop in your business. Your business is there to support you, not the other way around.

3. Client Results

What kind of results do you get for your clients?  I work with people who take people on a Transformational Journey. If this is you, you may be a service provider or coach or consultant. In other words you have the expertise to take people from point A to point B to achieve the outcome they need your help with.

If you are not helping your clients to get the most impactful transformation in the shortest and least stressful way for them, then your business is not really being as successful as it can be.

The 3 Counter-Intuitive Ways To Get Better Results For Your Clients 

1. Get The Splinters Out Of Your Bum

Now, you may have heard me talk about this concept before and it comes to this, people who sit on the fence get splinters in their bum.

So if you’re not prepared to jump off the fence and say, “I belong on this side of the fence of what I stand for in my industry” then you are destined to get splinters in your bum!  If you don’t state what you believe, then people are not going to know who you really are. They’re not going to recognize you as the person that they need to be with.

So let me give you an example of what I mean by that.

In my Attract Your Tribe Accelerator Program, I will only work with people who are committed to success and are committed to make a difference for their clients.

So you can’t get into my Accelerator program until we have an interview and I am convinced you meet those 2 criteria.  For me that is a no-brainer. I don’t work with people who are just looking at creating a business to meet those first two goals listed above for success (money and lifestyle). Commitment to client results is non-negotiable.  On the podcast I talk about other examples in other industries so make sure you watch / listen / read the transcript for more ideas.

A Reframe:

Now, a lot of people are uncomfortable about getting off the fence because they’re really worried about rejecting people, but I want you to think of it as this way. Instead of saying, “I don’t work with people like this” you’re actually saying “hell yeah” to the people who you DO work with.

So you’re going to be able to help those people better because they know that you’re the kind of person that’s got the approach that they agree with. They know you are on their side of the fence.

2. Deliver LESS

When I introduced the 3rd measure of success, I talked about more than just getting results. I also talked about getting results for them in the least amount of time with the least amount of stress.

There is one really big way to do that. And that is do less!

True confession:  for the first 10 years in business I acquainted over-delivering with generosity and exceptional service. I took me a while to recognize that with over-delivery can actually come overwhelm.

A far more exceptional service is to remove any distractions, any “nice to know but not essential” and instead provide the shortest, clearest and minimalist way to get from Point A to Point B.

I want you to adopt the idea of Addition by Subtraction.

Addition:  is the additional value of getting the results they want with less stress and less time.

Subtraction: Remove everything that is not absolutely essential.

An example: When I created the Attract Your Tribe program, I started with all of the material that I’ve used with clients over the years and applied it to my own business. As I was doing my big re-brand of Romance Your Tribe I applied all of these resources and framework to my own business.

Through the process of treating my business as if I was my own client,  I realized there were certain activities I had been giving my clients that they just didn’t need. It was not going to help them get results faster.

So I took them out. It was a tough decision to do, but it means my clients are getting results faster with less stress now.

Doing Less seems counter-intuitive. You may think you are over delivering and take pride in that, but it’s a very good chance that you are actually making it harder for your clients.

3. Package For Profit

The concept of packaging your expertise into bundled programs makes perfect sense for delivering the first 2  measures of success; Profit and Lifestyle.

But packaging for profit is also one of the best ways to get great  results for your clients, which is the third measure of business success I mentioned above.

Seems counter-intuitive doesn’t it?

To understand,  let’s first define what I mean by “Packaging for Profit”.

If you’re a service provider, coach, consultant, or something like that, it is your expertise and your time that gets results for your clients. You may have been working on an hourly rate or a per session rate or maybe even bundling, for example, six sessions for a discount. This is the usual way people structure their business and the fact of the matter is you’ll plateau out when you reach your available number of hours to spend with your clients. Your business can only grow to a certain level.

So it’s easy to see how the Package For Profit model will grow your business. But what about being best for your clients?

The hourly or session model is NEVER going to get the best results for your clients.

Let’s look at it this way.

When you have worked with enough clients you will have a very clear idea of the steps, processes and activities your clients need to do in order to get the transformation you can promise them.

You will also have an idea of how long this may take.

If the client comes to you to achieve an outcome and you offer them only a fraction of what you know they need to get results, then you are doing your client a disservice.

If the measure is getting results for clients, why are you even offering something that’s not going to get it?

You may feel it’s easier to sell them one session, or maybe a bundle of sessions because it will be cheaper.

But remember point 1 above… Get Off The Fence.

If you can say with absolute confidence “I know you cannot get the outcome you want with just a few sessions with me OR ANYONE ELSE” then stand up and claim that.

THEN show them exactly what will get them results and bundle together your time with workbooks, videos and / or audio lessons to make it faster and easier for your clients to get results.

That is integrity. Then you can say with absolute confidence “I only work with people I know I’m going to get results with and Package A is the minimum package I offer. I won’t waste your time and money offering you something smaller that simply won’t get you results”.

How This Grows Your Business

Getting off the fence ATTRACTS the type of people who love what you stand for and see you as the Tribal Business Leader they want to work with.

Delivering LESS means your clients get the transformation they want with less stress and less time.

Packaging for profit means you only provide solutions that will get great results. So your clients stay with you for longer, you have great success stories and your perfect clients refer other people who are just like them. Your business gets to grow. And importantly you really get to help people get results.

Action Steps

  1. Take the time to get super clear on what you stand for. Get those splinters out of your butt baby! This is one of the steps we do in the Profit In You Module in The Attract Your Tribe system. So if you need help, I got your back.
  2. Do an assets audit of the exercises, steps, resources and systems you use with your clients to get results. Ask yourself (and them) “what can I remove so they can get results faster?” I find the system I give members of Attract Your Tribe do uncover this is always extremely empowering. You’ll be surprised just how much you already have, even when first starting out.
  3. Brainstorm the steps your typical client absolutely must do in order to create success. Use this as your basis to create your first Package for Profit. If you need help with this, that’s my specialty and it will totally change the way you are doing business.
  4. Check out the Romance Your Tribe programs, designed to get you super clear on your uniqueness, suite of offers and launch your online course.
  5. Check out the no-brainer special offer we have created in partnership with the founders of 10xpro, the software we use and recommend to manage all your funnels… and more.
  6. If you’re committed to really get the best results for your clients and you’re committed to focus on your business to make this happen, well then we need to talk. Contact me, tell me a bit about your business, and I’ll let you know the best way that I can help you. Okay. Go out there and make a difference!

A Special Message From Janet

Thank you so much for being here. I know there are a lot of podcasts you could choose to listen to  and you chose to join me on Romance Your Tribe Radio.


I’m honoured and  grateful for your support.

If you enjoyed this week’s episode, I’d love for you to take a quick minute to share your thoughts with us and leave an honest review and rating for the show over on iTunes!

Read The Transcript Here

Hello and welcome! Janet Beckers here. Today I’m going to be talking about things that are quite counter-intuitive. Things that by you saying, nope, that’s not what we do around here are actually going to be creating success in your business in multiple measures, but especially the one that I consider to be absolutely essential for a successful business. So first of all, let’s look at those measures of what is their successful business. Then I’m going to look at these three counter-intuitive things that if you put into place things that you say no to, and this is what I’m not flexible on, are actually going to help you to get those results. So the measures for me that creates success in a business or show success, well, the first thing is this is a business, not a hobby, okay? So a business means it’s going to be producing money and it’s going to be providing you with the money, the lifestyle that you need.

Otherwise you have a hobby, not a business. You’re going to need another source of income otherwise. So get a job or hopefully somebody else will be looking after you. So if it’s a business, yeah, it has to make money. Now the other one is that you want this business. For me, this is a success. This business must also be supporting your lifestyle because you do not want to be working non-stop in your business. You know your business is there to support you, not the other way around. So these are two very obvious measures of success in business. But for me, the third one, if you’re not doing this, why are you in business anyway? And this third one is what kind of results do you get for your clients? Now I work with people who they take people on a transformational journey. So you may be, um, a service provider.

You may be a coach, consultant, you’ve got expertise. So you take people from point a to point B, you take them on a transformational journey. Now, if you are not helping your clients to get the most impactful transformation and the shortest way and the least stressful way for them, well then your business is not really being as successful as it can be. So what I’m looking at here are all things that are grown in go grow your business on the first two measures. But importantly, they make sure that you absolutely excel in getting results for your clients. And interestingly, when you talk about them, they may seem counter-intuitive for helping people, but that’s actually the opposite. So let’s have a look at those. So the very first one is have you got splinters in your bum? Now, you may have heard me talk about this concept before and it comes to this, people who sit on the fence get splinters in their bum.

So if you’re not prepared to jump off the fence and say, I belong on this side, or I belong on the other side of a particular viewpoint on what I stand for when it comes to my business might industry. If you don’t do that, then people are not going to know who you are. They’re not going to recognize you as the person that they need to be with. So let me give you an example of what I mean by that. So, um, for example, in my attract your tribe accelerator program in my industry, you know, you, this is, this is one thing that I have instilled with this is I believe that the only people who were going to create success in business, other people who have decided that I am treating this as a business end. I absolutely intend to make a difference for my clients.

So you can’t get into my accelerator program until we had an interview and I can tell that you actually truly want to help your clients get the best results and you’re committed to doing it. So for me that is a no brainer. I don’t work with people who are just looking at creating a business to meet those first two goals. I don’t work with them not at that level. So that is taking a stand. Another stand that you may take is an example from when I was being interviewed this morning on a podcast and it was for health professionals. We talked about the example of a health coach, um, or you know, or a weight loss person. So we said, well, you know, that person could say, I am anti using quick fixes. I am anti using tablets and potions and all of those sorts of things.

Anti that means that the people who you want to be working with know that this is what you stand for. Now, a lot of people are really uncomfortable about getting off the fence because they’re really worried about rejecting people, but I want you to think of it as this way. Instead of saying, I don’t work with people who like this or I can’t help you in this way is you’re actually saying a hell yeah to the people who you do work with. So you’re going to be able to help those people better because they know that you’re the kind of person that’s got the approach that they agree with, so you’re not going to be able to help somebody that, for example, there are perfectly great businesses that are out there that are really not about creating the success for the client, but they may be around something that is around product.

For example, moving product. You know, those businesses can be really great businesses. They just not the ones that I work with so that if somebody is, they’re wanting to know, okay, how do I build up my shop front or whatever, um, I’m not going to be the right person for them. We’re not going to gel. So does that give you example number one, if you don’t get off the fence, if you are not prepared to repel some people, you’re not going to be able to get the results for the people who you can help cause they don’t know that you’re a match. So that’s number one. Now the next one is kind of counter-intuitive as well. Now you, I sit there at the beginning that not only do you absolutely, um, you know, in for a good business should be measured on what results can you get for your clients.

I also talked about getting results for them in the least amount of time, the least amount of stress. And there is one really big way to be able to do that. And that is do less now from somebody who has, you know, for the very, probably the first 10 years in business I acquainted with over delivering to people has been really, really good. I took me a while to recognize that with over-delivery can actually come overwhelm. And so the more that you can take out that as a distraction for people, if you can be helping them create results and something else can be out, oh wow, that’s a really interesting to know. Or that’s going to be, you know, something that’s really going to impress them if it is not absolutely essential to get them to go from point a to point B, that is a disservice to your clients.

So I want you to adopt the idea of addition by subtraction addition by additional value in that they’re getting the results they want with less stress, less time, but subtraction by what can you remove, what can you pare things down too? So I know when I created the attract your tribe program, I actually started with all of the material that I’ve used with clients over the years and applied it to my own business. As I was doing my big rebrand of romance. You tried and I realized that there were certain activities, certain bonus audios and videos and things that I had been giving my clients that they didn’t need. It was not going to make them get what they wanted faster. So I took them out. Tough decision to do, but it means that people are getting results faster with less stress now. So can you do that?

So it’s counter-intuitive and you may think that you are over delivering and take pride in that, but it’s a very good chance that you are actually making it harder for your clients. Okay, so not only now are we saying this is who I don’t people this concept looking for this, I don’t work with you. This is who I do work with because I’m off the fence. And also there’s all these things I’m not going to do because they’re only going to be a distraction for you and not get results. So that’s two things that you will be, that may seem counter-intuitive and maybe different to the way you’re approaching business at the moment. Now the third one is one that I know a lot of people struggle with, but let’s take it back and relate it back to that concept of what is successful in business.

Now, the concept of packaging for profit, very often people will associate as ticking those boxes for increasing revenue and also for um, giving you lifestyle because you’re not having to hustle so much. Absolutely. But packaging for profit is also going to be getting the best results for your clients. So let’s talk at what packaging for profit is and how on earth is that going to be? Um, a counter-intuitive thing. And it’s in this way as if you’re working, especially if you’re a service provider, coach, consultants, something like that. We’re very often is your expertise, your time that you are giving to people that is going to be getting them the results. So you may have been working on an hourly rate or a per session rate or maybe even bundling, you know, six sessions for a discount, those sorts of things. The fact of the matter is that’s not going to grow your business.

You’ll, you’ll plateau out at how many hours you’ve got left work. Okay. Um, but really it is not going to be good for your clients. And let’s look at it in this way. If you know that in order for your clients to get the best results that they need to perhaps have a certain number of sessions and it may not even be the sessions they need to go through these certain steps. They may and they, some of those steps may not need you teaching them one on one. You may be able to put it into video or audio or written format, but they need to go through these certain steps and they need to have, um, you know, this kind of accountability. They may need to have a, a certain number of consults with you. If you know how long that process is going to take and that if they only get a fraction of it, that they’re not going to get the results.

Why on earth are you even offering that smaller amount that is not going to get them their results? If, if the measure is getting results for clients, why are you even offering something that’s not going to get it? Now, I can tell you why one of those is because you may go, well, you know what, I can easily or more easily sell a one off or maybe even two, but you know, because I may only be paying 50 bucks, a hundred bucks, 200 bucks an hour, whatever it is, doesn’t matter. Um, that’s easy to sell. But if I try to put together everything that I know that they’re going to need in order to get the result, to go from point a to point B, it’s going to take a longer period of time. It may take three months or six months and it’s not gonna cost.

You know, a few hundred bucks, it’s going to cost a few thousand for me to get, you know, for me to put that together and people just won’t do it. That is the main objection that I have for people doing this, but I want you to think of it in this way. If you know that number one, I first of all have said that this is what I believe in business. So if one of those things that you believe in business is that you cannot get [inaudible], people cannot possibly get the results whether they’re with you or with somebody else, they can’t possibly achieve that outcome without doing all of these steps. If you’ve know that, if you believe that, and also you’re getting off, you’re getting off the fence on that one. You also have know that you know what there is. This is all you need to do it.

You don’t need to have distractions, so you have minimized, you have removed things that are unnecessary. If you’ve already know this and that this is the fastest way for me to get you results and it’s still going to take more than one or two sessions, then that’s what you need to offer. That is integrity. So then you can be saying to people, you know what? I only work with people I know I’m going to get results with, because if you don’t meet these criteria of you’re willing to commit to do this amount of work, or you’re willing to, um, invest this amount of time to continue work, you know, going on progress to get those results. You know, if you’d can’t do this, I know I can’t get the results for you. So therefore, you know, you’re not, I can’t take you as a client.

You can see that is true integrity. And if you know that the minimum that you can do is going to have to be this amount of money or this size bundle, that’s all you offer people. Now I’m not saying you have to solve absolutely everything for them. There may be different milestones that they may want to reach. And so you can say, all right, to get to milestone number one, absolutely you’re going to have to do these processes. In the end, it’s going to take on average, this amount of time. This is how much it’s gonna cost. So it still can be broken up. But you’re being very honest with people about this is what it’s going to take. So they are can be quite counter-intuitive things. A lot of times people will think by you not over delivering that you’re ripping the client off.

They may be thinking by you saying no to lots of people that I only work with people like this, that that’s ripping. But all those people off that need your help, but that for whatever reasons they’re not committed, and you may be thinking, muddy me, sign, look, you can just pay for one session at a time as you need it, rather than this is the bundle that I only sell. A lot of people will go in. Well that’s not fair. That’s not very flexible. So these may seem counter-intuitive to you, but each of these three things, which are you being exceptionally clear on what you need to do, where you need to stand for, who you need to work with in order to get the best results for them. By you being super clear on that, you’re actually going to be achieving that third outcome, which is so essential, which is getting the best results for your clients.

And the more results you get for your clients, the more they want to stay with you, the more they refer other people who are just like them. Your business gets to grow. And importantly you really get to help people get results. How is that, okay, so I would love to hear from you. Um, are these three areas that perhaps you have been challenged with? I know a lot of people are. I know in the past I had been as well. So how are they areas that you have been challenged with? Are they areas that you have made any changes to and you’ve seen results? Are there any areas there that you’re thinking, I need help myself? I need my, I need to get clear on what it is I stand for. I need to get super clear on, you know, what can I be putting into my packages so I’m not over delivering to people and I really need to be super clear on, you know, how much can I charge?

What can I break them up to into, you know, for people to be able to get results with the least effort. Um, I, if you need some help with that, that’s what I do. So you can just, uh, just drop me an email or check out here. If you’re looking here on the website, you can check out how to, you know, working with me, um, you know, how a loan with me and see the re the different programs that we’ve got and working closely with people so we get the best results that happens through my attract your tribe accelerator program. So if you’re ready, if you’re committed to actually really get the best results for your clients and your committed to actually focus on, on your business to make this happen, well then we need to talk. So just drop me a message, told me a bit about your business, and I’ll let you know the best way that I can help you. Okay. Go out there and make a difference people. Bye!